Michael Jackson and the new documentary

[joystir59]

Leaving Neverland, being shown at the Sundance film festival and in the spring on Channel 4....I love his music and have believed he was vilified by the racist media, and by greedy individuals and families after his money; but am really not so sure of his innocence any more. I guess that's my aibu- that we have to listen to his accusers don't we? I was sexually abused as a ternager, and not believed. It was a profoundly damaging experience.

Pollysproggle

Stop dancing around the fucking question.

Would you or would you not let your child sleep in the same bed with an adult male who is not related and you barely know? Well?

And stop lying that there’s “no evidence” that Jackson raped children. There are multiple testimonies from victims - that”s evidence, dear. You may not find it compelling, but to deny the fact of it is quite disgusting.

What “evidence” do you think there ought to be if Jackson is guilty? Video tapes? Eyewitnesses who watched the rapes?

Since testimony from victims and circumstantial evidence proving this adult male did indeed sleep in bed with those children isn’t enough for you...what would be?

All the crotch grabbing, panting and grunting he did on stage and still people want to paint him as some asexual manchild. And that's before all the well documented inappropriate interactions with young boys.

The evidence for his paedophillia is there in plain sight it's just people are selfish and would rather ignore it than face "losing" their idol.

He was a calculated groomer who was enabled by the people he paid to facilitate his abuse. I've no doubt that is some respects he was a tragic figure but he was a child abuser and nothing should be allowed to excuse or obfuscate the abuse of children.

No. I did not know the answer and cannot answer it. It's an obvious question directed at me personally to try and berate whatever answer I give.
It's a silly question with an agenda and has nothing to do with anything.
Not answering is not cowardice but sense. I saw the question for what it was- irrelevant and an attempt to goad me into an answer that could be picked apart from any angle.

Sorry, I'm not biting.

@TwitToWoo
Credible evidence. Found not guilty remember?

Yes not guilty - just like OJ

Let's not pretend that trial delivered any sense of justice.

There’s always been credible evidence against him. A jury made up of idiots doesn’t mean there wasn’t.

But you have made yourself look stupid by refusing to answer a simple question.

We all know what your answer is...why won’t you give it? Dishonesty? Embarrassment?

And I beg to differ...the question is not even remotely “irrelevant”.

Most people would not let their children sleep in the same bed as an adult male they barely know and who is not a relative.

Why is this?

Because there are almost no circumstances where such an event would be entirely innocent.

I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it. But for you to be brave an admit that would mean acknowledging that Jackson was highly likely to have been a predator.

And, by the way...if he was just Peter Pan who adored children, where are the adored girls?

Twit You're trying to bully Polly and it's really not on.

There were no credible prosecution witnesses in the trial. It takes a minute or two to google and read.

Pollysproggle it may well be a question with an agenda. It may well be an attempt to goad. But it is not irrelevant to ask the question. It is not a silly question to ask at all. Of course, you say that as a way out. Your agenda, if I may, is to ignore pertinent questions because you realise in your heart it makes your argument untenable. I don't see you as stupid. I believe you have a brain, I don't take you as someone who doesn't have sense. However you have shown you refuse to answer a question because you know in your heart, as we all do, what that answer is and what that would mean. Not losing face is more important to you than integrity in a discussion.

The question is more than relevant because it goes straight to the heart of the entire reason that Jackson is in the situation he is. A person with moral integrity would state outright that it is wrong. Because, well, we all know it is. It is that easy. It is a very easy question to answer for most human beings.

A verdict of not guilty does not mean someone is de facto innocent. It can mean the jury have been knobbled there just wasn't enough evidence to convict beyond reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt is, rightly, a high bar so someone who is clearly guilty by lesser standards may not be convicted.

There was nothing innocent is MJ's behaviour towards young boys. Adult men who have the wellbeing of children in their hearts do not groom parents to let their children sleep in their beds even if it would be "innocent" because they understand that it is inappropriate.

Are we claiming that MJ was both childlike in behaviour AND intellect? Because there is no evidence that he was intellectually incapable of understanding what appropriate behaviour towards children was, so he took unrelated children into his bed knowing it was inappropriate. Even if he did nothing else, this alone is a gross violation of boundaries and should be a major red flag.

southeastdweller

Kindly do not misuse the word “bully” in that way....and do not take it upon yourself to police a conversation amongst adults. Who on earth do you think you are?

Perhaps you and she should take your paedophile apologetics elsewhere...this being a site for parents and all. Just a thought.

You’re being obnoxious and twisting my words, Twit. Please don’t tell me what to do, because it’s futile.

I know that I said that I was leaving this thread, and I am after this post to clarify something I said earlier in my first post.

The reason why I alerted my cousins' (who was around 8 yrs) mother about my pedophile brother, is because my brother wanted my cousin to stay over our house and sleep in his bed. My brother was 22! My idiot mother thought nothing of this, because my brother was "special" and "pure". She had the same warped view that some people have about MJ and his Peter Pan like innocence bullshit.

There is NO fucking reason for ANY adult (unless they are a parent or direct caretaker) to be wanting to sleep in bed with a child NO EXCUSE! NO REASON! BUT ONE! AND YOU KNOW IT!!!!!

WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!

MissLanes - I think most people hear you loud and clear

I can only think that some of the posters here are utterly delusional in their idolatry or are deliberately trying to provoke a reaction.

Neither are actions to be commended.

@pollysproggle so you're happy to believe that Simpson was guilty despite being acquitted but you don't think the same can be true of Jackson?

Why are so many of you getting so wound up by this? All MJ ever wanted was to be left alone, but it seems even after death people obsess about him. Regardless of whether u formed an opinion on him being innocent or guilty, don't you have your own lives & problems to deal with?

A new documentary about him comes out relatively regularly about him because they know they can make money from it- yet each time, suddenly the masses are in uproar, as if there's some new information within said documentary. There isn't, it's all been said before.

Some of you are so emotional, you act like he killed your grandmother. You didn't know him, and he's dead, so calm down.

I'm pretty sure Hitler, who was responsible for killing an entire race, gets some of you less wound up.

At this stage, there is no way for any of you to know one way or the other whether he was guilty or not (unless u build a time machine).

Also consider the age of consent varies in different countries & cultures. Which age do you pick as the boundary in your opinion- and what if someone is 1 day older than that boundary- does it suddenly make it ok in your mind? Your next door neighbour may be horrified at the age you pick, and have a different opinion. My point is you talk in absolutes as if your word is final, yet the world is more often than not shades of grey.

@TwitToWoo

You are getting very nasty though. There’s no need.

@twittowo
"Jackson was highly likely to have been a predator"

Have u seen the film predator? And have u seen MJ in any interview?

@frankiesamson

Why are you trying so hard to defend the indefensible?

@MrsAriadneOliver
I'm not

Also consider the age of consent varies in different countries & cultures. Which age do you pick as the boundary in your opinion

This is utterly irrelevant

Also consider the age of consent varies in different countries & cultures. Which age do you pick as the boundary in your opinion- and what if someone is 1 day older than that boundary- does it suddenly make it ok in your mind? Your next door neighbour may be horrified at the age you pick, and have a different opinion. My point is you talk in absolutes as if your word is final, yet the world is more often than not shades of grey.

Pretty sure 7 is well below the age of consent in any country. Stop being a paedophile apologist you weirdo.

“Why are so many of you getting so wound up by this? All MJ ever wanted was to be left alone, but it seems even after death people obsess about him.”

Left alone by adults, maybe. He had plenty of time for the boys he had unsupervised “sleepovers” with.

I think this documentary is a good thing. People need to have more conversations about adult behaviour toward children that’s potentially unsafe. Irrespective of whether they’re famous, or “pure” or whatever.