Michael Jackson and the new documentary

[joystir59]

Leaving Neverland, being shown at the Sundance film festival and in the spring on Channel 4....I love his music and have believed he was vilified by the racist media, and by greedy individuals and families after his money; but am really not so sure of his innocence any more. I guess that's my aibu- that we have to listen to his accusers don't we? I was sexually abused as a ternager, and not believed. It was a profoundly damaging experience.

Sorry for what you've been through OP. Well done for coming forward

@Ariadne Did your father ever report these "feelings"?, doubtful as many despite having had certain feelings towards powerful people are unable to report them or speak out because of risks to their livelihood and careers.

In regard to the person who gave an opinion as an "artist", are you staying that "art" is worth it regardless of the damage to the most vulnerable?

I guess as someone that works with the most vulnerable, including domestic and sexual assault survivors, I just don't share your point of view.

I am not saying art justifies abuse, no. MJ didn't need to abuse children in order to sing and dance. 'I am saying that art can stand alone, a separate thing from the artist and their behaviour. Art has its own life.

The paedophile apologists on this thread make me feel physically sick.

How about you tell me why you know he wasn't a wonderful humanitarian and why you know he's guilty and show me what you proof you have?

Ok, replace the words 'Michael Jackson' in the following sentence with 'teacher', or 'gymnastics coach', or 'Scout leader', or 'police officer':

Michael Jackson admits he spent hundreds of nights in bed with young boys.

There’s are some batshit comparisons on this thread.

Deluded.

@ShatnersBassoon

Teacher, policeman, Scot leader found guilty of all charges.
Replace one of those with MJ and you have a fact not an assumption.

NOT GUILTY!! I mean.
You're all rubbing off on me now

You've missed the point, @pollysproggle. Quick yes or no: it's alarming isn't it, Michael Jackson sleeping with children?

He was quite open about his enjoyment of sharing his bed with children, and it's something that has been confirmed by many.

I'm not talking about criminal charges but known facts, and how someone's fame, talent or perceived eccentricity can dilute the reaction some people have to their behaviour. Ordinary people who said they liked enticing children into bed would not be cut the same slack and publicly defended.

Wasn't Jimmy savile a "wonderful humanitarian" back in the day also? Doesn't mean a thing.

A grown man who

-befriends whole families in order to have access to young boys
-drops the boys once they reach puberty
-shows those boys pornography
-shares a bed with them and tells them to lie about it because people wont understand,

-goes to great lengths to be undisturbed with those boys such as installing alarms and motion detectors on doors etc
-has naked photos of at least one of these "friends"
-owns books made and promoted by paedophiles

• and, most importantly of all, has been accused by multiple children of sexual abuse

IS A PAEDOPHILE WHO IS ABUSING CHILDREN!! It's staring people in the face and they still refuse to see.

I am saying that art can stand alone, a separate thing from the artist and their behaviour. Art has its own life

What pretentious nonsense. "Art" does not stand in isolation from their creator. I do not want to get enjoyment from people that have systematically abused others.

If that helps you to ease your conscience then great but I couldn't live being as deluded as that. Maybe it is attitudes like that that keep abusers in their position? "Think about the art/music/record or film sales". How far does someone have to go before their behaviour is seen as part of their "art"?

His motives and state of mind whilst understandable aren't really the point.

The fact he at the very least had inappropriate boundaries with young boys (though it's fairly clear it was more than this) - these events happened.

Maybe he did feel like a child. Maybe he was abused by his father and reenacted these relations with his special friends. Irrespective of that, it happened.

I was told by a guy with physical and learning disabilities he was sexually attracted to and had done stuff with his niece. The fact he was likely child like in viewpoint makes no difference to what he did. I told him to tell someone and a few months later, he did and he had done even worse to his niece, nephew and a cousin all 6-10ish.

It's telragic but it's a crime and my sympathy lies with his victims.

Even if MJ just was inappropriate he likely screwed up those kids boundaries and that alone was not fair for him to do.

Sorry to hear of what happened to you @joystir59 💐

@ShatnersBassoon
I agree 100% with you on that and I've said it isn't appropriate for adult men to share a bed with other people's children. I've never said I think that it's ok at all as I don't, just offered a different opinion as to why it may have happened in the first place- Never said it was a good and acceptable practice. I've said and I'll say again it was a bad move and stupid position to put himself in. It was however, not illegal.
I disagree with him 'enticing' them.

MJ was not a normal joe blogs with a normal upbringing and life. Nothing was normal for him, he was exploited his whole life. That's not an excuse for bad decisions but a way to explaining them. That's not an excuse for a pedophile either as he was never found guilty.
I'm not defending a convicted pedophile. I'm defending a man that was found not guilty in a criminal case and questioning with good reason the credibility of his accusers.

@FromEden
You clearly get your info from the tabloids

i agree that MJ's body of work will be forever tainted by his sexual abuse of children.

Re the tape; it was spliced together.
www.mjfacts.com/redemption-by-geraldine-hughes-sloppy-work/

@pollysproggle Do you believe that OJ Simpson murdered his wife and his wife's partner?

@Andromeida59
I'll say yes from the little I know about the case but I've never looked into it in depth as I have with this case. Never even watched a documentary about it so I would probably go with the common consensus that he's guilty, yes.
Which is understandably what people think/do with MJ.

Polly would you have left your small son under the care of MJ?

And more to the point why would you ? ( same to be said to all the parents of children left to mix with a grown adult).

@pollysproggle "Not all kindness towards children leads back to something sinister. Some people just love kids and want to be around them because they make them happy.
In this day it seems inconceivable that anyone would want to be around children (especially men) without someone raising an eyebrow."

Yeah, so many people who love children ONLY spend time with boys, and not girls....

Come on!

People who love children spend time with both sexes. Paedophiles almost always have a predilection for one gender exclusively.

I can't get over two things: how anyone can have such a dearth of empathy that they could destroy others', children's, lives like that and two, how those children held it together to the extent their parents didn't wonder were they OK, I understand them not saying anything, terrifying as it is to think of, but I would have thought that their mood, their personality would have been effected with this going on. I mean this of all CSA really, it's horrific to think of and I know there's a big and probably naïve part of me thinking 'my son would say something', 'I'd know there was something wrong'.

@SalemtheBIackCat
A little google search will show you it wasn't just boys.

@HowlsMovingBungalow
Impossible question to answer

Salem

I don't have time to read that article, but I notice that there's no evidence anywhere that the Evan Chandler tape was faked. Do you have a short article?

@frankiesamson I never said they did.