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Original poster

Michael Jackson and the new documentary

618 replies

joystir59 · 27/01/2019 12:08

Leaving Neverland, being shown at the Sundance film festival and in the spring on Channel 4....I love his music and have believed he was vilified by the racist media, and by greedy individuals and families after his money; but am really not so sure of his innocence any more. I guess that's my aibu- that we have to listen to his accusers don't we? I was sexually abused as a ternager, and not believed. It was a profoundly damaging experience.

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Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 17:27

Ribbonsonabox I am offended by the idea you put forward that paedophiles and homosexuals are one and the same- they most certainly are not. MJ's homosexuality was not why he wanted romance/sex with boys rather than men- he wanted to do so because he was a padophile.

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Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 17:33

He by all accounts was sexually abused in his childhood as well as physically abused by his father and I would suggest in my own pop psychologist way that paedophilia quite possibly arises from child sexual abuse- I am NOT suggesting that all people who experience child sexual abuse go on the become paedophiles, but that there probably is evidence to suggest that all paedophiles have been abused. I class paedophiles differenly from men who want sex with pubescent teenagers- paedophoiles desire children. I suspect that MJ never sought therapy for his inappropriate desire for children but was in denial about how wrong it was. I am not excusing him at all- he made conscious adult choices.

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EnoughSnowAlready · 28/01/2019 17:34

Also from Brett Barnes testament. Q. All right. Now the first time that you slept with Mr Jackson you were seven years old; is that correct? A I slept in the same bed with him, but yes. I was seven. .. All right. But you slept in the same bed with him when you were seven years old; is that correct? A:Yes. Q. Was anyone else in that bed with you? My sister Q. She was ten years old;is that right? A: Yes. Q: is it true that there was not another adult anywhere in that room at the time you crawled into bed with Mr Jackson? A: True. Q: And in fact you continued to sleep with Mr Jackson through the balance of that week during your seventh year; is that right? A: Yes.

Ribbonsonabox · 28/01/2019 17:34

That's not what I meant at all sorry if it came across that way. I in no way think that paedophiles and homosexuals are the same thing.

Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 17:36

Thank you Ribbons

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User758172 · 28/01/2019 17:37

@frankiesamson

Don’t tell me whether I can recognise racism or not. Anyone decent human being can recognise it. The colour of my skin is utterly irrelevant. Not everything is about race, some people just want to make it so.

EnoughSnowAlready · 28/01/2019 17:39

Also same testimony. 'All right. Were there ever occasions where you went to visit Mr Jackson when your Mother wasn't there? A: Yes. I think a couple of times he had an apartment in Century City that my Mother would drop me off and I'd stay for, you know, a night or so by myself with Michael there.

So much for full family sleepovers.

User758172 · 28/01/2019 17:43

@frankiesamson

Try to love him? Confused

No matter what his childhood was - is that an excuse? Is it a get-out clause? Having had a crappy childhood is all very sad, but that’s for him to deal with as an adult. It doesn’t give him the right to destroy that of other children.

User758172 · 28/01/2019 17:44

Christ almighty, what were these parents thinking? It beggars belief.

pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 17:47

@EnoughSnowAlready
Yes I've read those too. Good you're having a read. It's not about family sleepovers all of the time it's about the fact people think it's always MJ with one singled out young boy all of the time when in fact it isn't.

HowlsMovingBungalow · 28/01/2019 17:48

Brett Barnes spent 365 nights sleeping in MJ bed.
He was between 10 and 11 yrs old

He also went on tour with MJ in 1992. A child on tour with a grown man.

All sounds so innocent and normal.

Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 17:48

MrsAriadneOliver MTV refused to play the music/videos of black artists until Thriller became so big they could no longer ignore MJ. Just one example. To say the Jackson and MJ didn't experience racism is ridiculous- all black people experience it, famous or not.

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EnoughSnowAlready · 28/01/2019 17:51

You make it sound as though it was a big sleepover with parents and children all together. It is clear from the transcripts that it was far from that. There is nothing normal about a grown man sharing a room, indeed a bed with an unrelated seven year old with no other adults present. How anyone can think of that as innocent or normal in any way shape or form is beyond me.

EnoughSnowAlready · 28/01/2019 17:52

And I don't care if he did it once. You cannot tell me that is ok.

User758172 · 28/01/2019 17:55

@joystir59

I never once said MJ didn’t experience racism, as that would be ridiculous. I said I didn’t think black celebrities and white celebrities are treated different the media where child abuse is concerned. They’re not hauling black celebrities like Cosby over the coals for their crimes and giving Jimmy Savile an easy ride.

MrsFassy · 28/01/2019 17:57

Yes I've read those too. Good you're having a read. It's not about family sleepovers all of the time it's about the fact people think it's always MJ with one singled out young boy all of the time when in fact it isn't.

@pollysproggle I don't think this is what anyone has said, but if I'm not mistaken you were quite adamant that he didn't spend nights alone sharing his bed with young boys.

User758172 · 28/01/2019 17:57

they are not treated differently by the media that should say.

cushioncuddle · 28/01/2019 17:59

If your next door neighbour didn't have kids but had an amazing swing and slide set in his garden which he played on with the local kids and invited them round for sleepover parties would you think he's just an innocent man who can't let go of his childhood and just loves children ? I doubt it. But apparently that is exactly what MJ was doing !!! Right O !!

Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 18:01

His spiritual guru warned him to keep away from children and stop trying to replace their parents
Rabbi Shmuley Boteach: Michael confessed on international TV to
sharing a bed with a child. This is unacceptable and immoral and he
promised me, when I warned him about never being alone with a child,
that he would never do it. When I saw him say this in the Bashir
documentary my heart sank. I have consistently said that I never
witnessed anything that would lead me to believe that Michael could
harm a child.
Read more at www.beliefnet.com/columnists/rabbishmuleyunleashed/2009/10/rabbi-shmuleys-live-chat-regarding-the-michael-jackson-tapes.htm#gGt8Em06iUwSUptG.99

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chillpizza · 28/01/2019 18:04

The whole industry is full of people getting away with terrible things. It’s not exactly a secret.

I always find those cult like followers of those accused strange. Like you are not family or friends why such strong feelings to a person who couldn’t give a crap about you and wouldn’t even give you a second look if you where on fire.

Andromeida59 · 28/01/2019 18:08

I don't think it's as simple as blaming parents. Jackson, like other celebrities and other authority figures (police, priests, politicians) had a certain untouchable presence which many parents could have been intimidated by.

I am not suggesting censorship but I don't believe that someone's crimes (or alleged crimes) should be overlooked because of their fame or creative ability.

In regard to why more victims haven't come forward, maybe they're scared in case they are branded liars and their families targeted.

Andromeida59 · 28/01/2019 18:10

@chillpizza agreed. It's like all those who were defending Depp even after he'd admitted abusing his former wife. People don't seem to be able to distinguish the personalities on screen or on stage from their actual personalities.

Burpsandfustles · 28/01/2019 18:11

Yes people want to be around children but not on the the same bed.

This isn't a case of people raising eyebrows over something so normal.

If anyone on here was lost and saw a young boy or girl walking home in the dark.. Would you pull up and ask them directions? Or would you yiu suffer being lost and just carry on until you could find an adult or someone else?

Because I would never ever put a child in that position.. That's because I love children and wouldn't went to scare them.

Why would mj even want to risk putting themselves in that position.

He must have felt such incredible power to get away with this. And with such a stupid ridiculous lame excuse...

I'm Peter pan I love little kids.

ShatnersBassoon · 28/01/2019 18:12

These sleepovers consisted of many children not just individual boys and MJ.

Sometimes.

Siblings and parents all stayed together, girls and boys.

Sometimes.

The assumption that a grown man was taking young boys privately to his room is indeed disturbing and I would agree very wrong but that isn't exactly what happened at all.

Not every time, but it did.

@pollysproggle - you must see that a man repeatedlywanting young boys in his bed is not acting on childish bewilderment. It's sinister, and isn't cancelled out by the times he took whole families of siblings into his bed Confused

pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 18:17

@MrsFassy
That was my response in the face of being asked why it was only boys.

Brett Barnes and his parents saw MJ as a family member and trusted him with their child. That's all I take form those transcripts.

Brett Barnes testified in MJ's defence and hasn't accused him of anything. He stayed with MJ with his family for weeks at a time as they're from Australia and visited Neverland on his own when much older than 7 demonstrating trust. To my knowledge as an adult he and his family have not changed their opinion of MJ.
Bed sharing with kids that are not yours is not appropriate I agree but if you have been trusted as a caregiver to said child it's not entirely abhorrent.