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Michael Jackson and the new documentary

618 replies

joystir59 · 27/01/2019 12:08

Leaving Neverland, being shown at the Sundance film festival and in the spring on Channel 4....I love his music and have believed he was vilified by the racist media, and by greedy individuals and families after his money; but am really not so sure of his innocence any more. I guess that's my aibu- that we have to listen to his accusers don't we? I was sexually abused as a ternager, and not believed. It was a profoundly damaging experience.

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frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:00

@Aquaviv , how does burning his records that were 99% the hard work of innocent people not related to MJ who often only did the vocal, help? Hmm

Even if u found a record 100% his (impossible), how does burning records help anyone in a digital age?

pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 17:02

@MrsFassy
I can't answer that as the question is already wrong. It wasn't just boys. It was just boys that accused him yes but it wasn't just boys he showed kindness too. It also wasn't just kids.

frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:05

@mrsariadneoliver you wouldn't see the racism unless you're also black- that's the point of racism, it doesn't affect people not of that race.

If a white person walks through a black racist area, she could think it's the nicest most friendly area and would have no clue about the racism, because she's white. A black guy walking through the same area might receive all kinds of abuse. If he told the white girl what happened, she'd struggle to believe him. She thinks it's the nicest area. People go by their own experiences.

Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 17:05

the media were/are definitely racist toward MJ, however, I have read a lot of documents, reportage, and MJ did take boys on tour, ostensibly to perform on stage with him, but why did he take such a personal interest and why was it always young boys. and why did stay with boys and their familiies.

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MrsFassy · 28/01/2019 17:06

@pollysproggle

Thank you for responding. So, did he have young girls and adults staying over in his room with him too?

pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 17:08

@MrsFassy
Yes. Entire families stayed with him

DeRigueurMortis · 28/01/2019 17:08

Polly paying these children to accompany him on tours, to have extended stays at Neverland, give expensive gifts is bribery and treating them like commodities, as was the propensity to replace them with a newer model as they hit puberty.

frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:10

@joystir59 if adults were being so unpleasant & racist & judgemental if u, what other option do u have if u don't want to surround yourself with animals? Kids are by nature less judgements, less mean, but u can still talk to them like reasonable human beings. They haven't been turned bad by experiences in society yet. MJ lost his childhood & felt like a child himself- have u ever heard of anyone who didn't say a bad word about anyone apart from MJ? It's very rare. MJ was one of a kind & very child like. Why should he be denied to be around people like himself?

As for why he preferred boys to girls- why do boys at school prefer boys to girls? Because they're not sexual & like to have things in common? Who knows

MrsFassy · 28/01/2019 17:11

@pollysproggle

Entire families stayed in his room with him?

frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:12

Even after death, people in society are so messed up that they can't accept someone as pure & innocent as MJ, they have to misinterpret every innocent thing he did.

pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 17:14

@DeRigueurMortis
That isn't the case at all. He was a very rich man and had the capacity to shower anyone with gifts and money, he could afford every extravagance. He did it to many adults too.
When accompany a pop star you'd get the pop star treatment not second class.

The only people that have claimed to be tossed aside after they hit puberty were his accusers. Many of his friends stayed friends with him from childhood until the day he died, supported him 100% and even worked for him as adults.

frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:14

@pollysproggle so where are these other victims then? Surely if he liked girls too there would be plenty of them on the documentary. We're talking about 50 years of life, yet they only found 2 yes TWO credible victims for this documentary? There would be hundreds, surely. All sounds a bit... iffy

pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 17:16

@MrsFassy
Yes. Like I said his 'bedroom' wasn't a bedroom as we know one to be. It was a two story wing if you like capable of sleeping many

Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 17:16

I will always love the music MJ recorded. I am an artist and do believe art has to be considered as separate from the artist and to remain uncensored- I do believe MJ was a very talented boy and man and gave us fantastic performances and music, and that as an artist and performer he was pure. I am totally against destroying any artist's work.

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Ribbonsonabox · 28/01/2019 17:16

I have no idea whether he is guilty of actually having sex with those children or not.... but whatever the case none of it was okay was it? It was so many levels of inappropriate..... and whether or not he had sex with them I can imagine that the whole experience was quite psychologically damaging. I've not watched this documentary but I intend to... I've seen other documentaries that seem to err on the side of him being innocent and thought that none of it was okay... he seemed to have formed romances with particular boys.. even if he did not have sex with them the situation was intense and romantic and unhealthy... theres no way those children should have been allowed in those situations. He certainly paid those parents for their kids and also lived in this complete delusion that it was all okay.
He was clearly a very damaged person surrounded by so much wealth and so many yes people that he could delude himself into thinking his behaviour was totally fine. I mean even on these documentaries and interviews made whilst he was alive he is openly coming across as unhinged... he doesn't even try to hide the fact has shared beds with them on a regular basis.. and his language is very romantic about the boys... I mean hes completely deluded himself hasn't he?

My cod psychology guess is that he was gay and realised as a teen but growing up in such a strict religious household filled with the threat of violence, he was unable to ever express this and so sublimated it. So imo the only people he felt safe in expressing his sexuality towards were young boys who didnt have the knowledge or 3xperience to judge him or label him as gay.... so he did not have to acknowledge that, so he could just pretend to himself he was being a kind fun friend to some kids.... who all happened to be young teenaged boys.

I just cannot get my head around the amount of people who must've turned a blind eye to his behaviour for money.... I mean we are talking hundreds of people. All the people around him.

frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:17

@pollysproggle "he was rich with the capacity to shower anyone in extravagance" -

If this was true then he wouldn't have been in so much debt with so many worries about money. Have you ever watched the 2009 documentary?

HowlsMovingBungalow · 28/01/2019 17:17

Pure and innocent?

He was a Drug addict.

CoolCarrie · 28/01/2019 17:19

He was guilty as sin, and so are the parents who pimped out their children for money and the opportunity to been seen around with him. Money talks when it comes to justice in the USA, as OJ Simpson proved.
No one had the guts to tell him that his behaviour was completely unacceptabLe and dodgy , his greedy family and friends all wanted a piece of his wealth, he was a cash cow for so many.
God knows what Lisa Marie was thinking to marry him, probably to try to get him join the other bams in Scientolgy (sp) I think he married her to have the ultimate Elvis connection, same as Nick Cage, and to act as his beard due to the allegations.

pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 17:19

@frankiesamson
Yes very in debt in the end. Most probably because of the extravagance I'd say. But at the time of accusation I'd say he was probably doing all right money wise!

frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:20

@Howismovingbungalow do u drink coffee? That's a drug.

Original poster
joystir59 · 28/01/2019 17:21

It is possible for many aspects of someone to all be true at the same time- MJ was very talented and we should never censor or destroy any artist's work- I believe he was very kind to lots and lots of people and he gave huge amounts of money to charity and to individuals and families. I also unfortunately believe that he grew up to become a paedophile and very possibly to act on those feelings and to abuse boys. All these things can be true about him. I feel very sad for his children. I note that Paris has taken refuge in a treatment centre for her well being. By all accounts he was a loving father- another aspect of him that is also true. This is the truth of abuse- the abuse is carried out by complex human beings capable of doing good and bad things, not by monsters.

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pollysproggle · 28/01/2019 17:21

@HowlsMovingBungalow
He was in the end but he was also a very sick man in a lot of pain. Lupus, vitaligo, artiritis to name a few

frankiesamson · 28/01/2019 17:22

To all who judge him here:

Before you judge him, try hard to love him, and within your hearts... then ask, have you seen his childhood?

HowlsMovingBungalow · 28/01/2019 17:23

Coffee is hardly Propofol.

EnoughSnowAlready · 28/01/2019 17:27

Some of the court transcripts make it pretty clear that he did have sleepovers without other adults present. I've just started to read through them but even Brett Barnes who continues to defend him stated this in the 2005 trial.

'And you stayed in Mr Jackson's room? A. Yes. q. The first time you were there? A. Yes. Q. To your knowledge, has your mother ever stayed in Mr Jackson's room? A. In the room? No. How about your sister? A. Yes. Q. And when do you recall your sister staying in the room? A. On that first trip, the first time we went to Neverland.

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