Michael Jackson and the new documentary

[joystir59]

Leaving Neverland, being shown at the Sundance film festival and in the spring on Channel 4....I love his music and have believed he was vilified by the racist media, and by greedy individuals and families after his money; but am really not so sure of his innocence any more. I guess that's my aibu- that we have to listen to his accusers don't we? I was sexually abused as a ternager, and not believed. It was a profoundly damaging experience.

Frankiesamson but them being dead has nothing to do with them facing justice for their crimes!

@frankiesamson How is them dying from something not connected to the abuse relevant? What about the victim's needs for an acknowledgement of what happened, an apology? Why do you believe that just because a molester is dead that that means the victims should be okay?

He may have died but that's no comfort to a victim it's almost like he got an easy way out, but they are now left with the issues as they have no closure.
a person who's not taken any blame or acknowledgement for what they've done then just dying isn't the same as getting closure because they've died.

@pollysproggle the fact you use the term ‘witch hunt’ really tells me everything I need to know about your viewpoint.

I stand with the victims - all of whom you have dismissed. That in itself is disturbing.

You seem a bit over-invested tbh.

Terry George was interviewed as an adult about THAT phone call and did not retract that MJ had got sexual over the phone

Two really interesting websites that I found yesterday when I read the story of the documentary.

mjandboys.wordpress.com/michaeljacksonsvictims/

www.mjfacts.com

I think you have to do some mental gymnastics to state that he's innocent tbh.

@WatchingFromTheSidelines
The fact you offer nothing to the debate tells me everything about your viewpoint.

I stand with the victims - all of whom you have dismissed. That in itself is disturbing.
You stand with the alleged victims. I do not- well done for noticing. I can't believe he is innocent and believe the alleged victims are telling the truth can I?

You seem a bit over-invested tbh.
I take that as a compliment thank you. Even it if was intended as an insult.

You criticise blind faith @WatchingFromTheSidelines but it is in fact exactly what you have done. Blind faith the alleged victims are telling the truth just because they said it with no evidence to back it up.

Too many boys going on tour, on sleep overs, sharing his bed, getting expensive gifts, too many allegations. Too much smoke for there not to be fire.

Of course it should be mentioned that Jackson was never found guilty, either he settled out of court or was acquitted.

However, given statistically how many rapists etc. are found guilty, acquittal doesn't necessarily mean innocent. It simply means that the jury didn't believe beyond reasonable doubt the testimony of the victims or believes the testimony of the defendant. Given how famous Jackson is/was would you as a jury member on tv be able to find him guilty?

Regardless of what you think about Jackson, if you heard about an adult who was singling out young children and spending time alone with no parental supervision. Someone who would give the same children expensive gifts.
Given what we know about now know about paedophilia and how paedophiles act and groom victims, would this ring alarm bells with you?

I thought he was guilty at the time. He admitted at the time to sharing his bed with young boys. I couldn't think of any reason to wanting someone else's kids in bed with you, unless you are a pedophile.

@joystir59
Not all kindness towards children leads back to something sinister. Some people just love kids and want to be around them because they make them happy.
In this day it seems inconceivable that anyone would want to be around children (especially men) without someone raising an eyebrow.
If you look at it that way then any kind act towards anyone could be picked apart and shown as a devious act for personal gain.

However much spin you put on this, a grown man sleeping in a bed with pre-pubescent boys is not "kindness" - it's downright inappropriate Polly.

Even if nothing sexual occurred then it was still damaging in the sense it would have impacted these children's perception of appropriate adult behaviour and the nature of "friendship", thus leaving them vulnerable.

Oh and neither was it kind to treat these children like commodities to be bought/bribed for their companionship.

Please could somebody tell me the exact number of people who have made allegations about SA from MJ to date? TY

He was one part of the fuckupness of Hollywood.

People should watch An Open Secret.

It all needs to fucking stop but there's shitload money behind all the abuse.

@pollysproggle

So, why was it only boys that he showed that kindness to?

Like many here I was a fan as a child, verging on obsessive. I truly, truly hope that this new documentary makes it as socially unacceptable to play MJ music as it would be to play the Cosby show in a family restaurant these days. The prevalence of false accusations is tiny in comparison with the prevalence of abusers and rapists found not guilty (note: not guilty as opposed to found innocent), so even without the preponderance of evidence that has been leaking out over the years, the vast likelihood is that he did it.

Do I think a racist media have vilified Jackson and Cosby more than they have white men in the same situation? Absolutely. I think the white men deserve just as much vilification--and from me personally, they get it. I don't watch anything with Charlie Sheen or directed by Polanski. Johnny Depp is anathema to me these days. MJ music is harder to avoid, as it is often played as "easy listening", but it jars every time.

Just because he is dead does not mean that the case should be closed. Jimmy Saville's case was opened after he died and his legacy torn to pieces. The same should happen to MJ. There should Beatles bigger-than-jesus style burns of his records and merchandise.

I don't watch many films nowadays too many disgusting people involved with them.

Bryan Singer is another piece of Hollywood scum.

@DeRigueurMortis
Where do you get your information that he bribed anyone for friendship?
MJ's bedroom in itself was two story condo with multiple rooms, humongous beds and 3 bathrooms. These sleepovers consisted of many children not just individual boys and MJ. Siblings and parents all stayed together, girls and boys.
The assumption that a grown man was taking young boys privately to his room is indeed disturbing and I would agree very wrong but that isn't exactly what happened at all.

Where you there on a sleepover too then @Polly?

Nope! No such luck. Witness statements from adult parents regarding the sleepovers.
The main boys I know of were ill and the parents contacted MJ he didn't seek them out. 100's of children and adults were at Neverland, not just young boys.

@pollysproggle

I'll ask again as you seem to have missed my question first time around;

Why was it only boys he showed kindness to?

Do I think a racist media have vilified Jackson and Cosby more than they have white men in the same situation? Absolutely

I see no evidence of racism at all. Jimmy Savile was rightly crucified by the media once the scale of his crimes emerged.

@salemtheblackcat what makes u think abusers always apologise to their victims?