Michael Jackson and the new documentary

[joystir59]

Leaving Neverland, being shown at the Sundance film festival and in the spring on Channel 4....I love his music and have believed he was vilified by the racist media, and by greedy individuals and families after his money; but am really not so sure of his innocence any more. I guess that's my aibu- that we have to listen to his accusers don't we? I was sexually abused as a ternager, and not believed. It was a profoundly damaging experience.

So many people in this thread picking lines from the media and treating it like it's a fact. No one bothers to read the actual trial transcripts though. Not as interesting I suppose.

Turtle Absolutely agree. The transcripts contain a wealth of information that people on this thread have blithely ignored.

@TurtleCove
That's what I did. If you actually research the original case with Jordan Chandler and his family and how it came to be the only conclusion is extortion.
Jordan's estranged father Evan only came back on the scene once his son had a friendship with MJ. Evan was a dentist and used truth serum and laughing gas on his own son to extract information. Evan had tried to get MJ to give him money and buy him a house. Evan was recorded saying he will take MJ down if he didn't get what he wanted.
MJ didn't want to settle the case with a payout but for various reasons was advised to.
His sole agenda was money

polly Not only that, but it was Michael Jackson's insurance company which chose to settle, not him. His wishes were actively overridden by the insurance company. So these people who say that Jackson "settling" is proof of his guilt ought to look into what that settlement actually entailed and how it came about, because he was adamant about fighting the accusation.

@RedDwarves
Yes that too. MJ wanted to fight it but was advised to settle. Very bad advice which he always regretted.

As for CR, again no prosecution because of a BBC fuck up but lots of evidence.

Get your facts right for God's sake before you libel someone. Even the chief constable of South Yorkshire Police said the evidence wasn't strong enough and SYP paid C.R £400,000. The fabricated incident happened in Sheffield.

Still, no smoke without fire, eh? I take it you also think Paul Gambaccini and Jimmy Tarbuck are also guilty of what they were accused of a few years ago?

this comment on this thread has really blown my mind...
I'm not sure if he's guilty of anything or if he genuinely never grew up.

Seriously? Of course he 'grew up' . He may was biologically and intellectully an adult. Ie although clearly very bizarrre logic, he was an adult.

I have read all the evidence and really wanted to believe he was innocent but I have to say that there are just too many instances of him befriending boys and their families- there always seems to be a boy involved, I do think he grew up to be a paedophile. Did he act on his predilections- we may never know the truth but generally people do not lie about sexual abuse- it is very painful to talk about and come to terms with especially if you have been brainwashed into thinking you were consenting to it. Especially if you have hero-worshipped your abuser who is a huge star.

@pollysproggle That recording of Evan saying that was proven to be fake. And if you did actually read the trial transcripts you would seen clearly that he was guilty. Even the jurors admit they believe he did something.

@RedDwarves

"Christ, the brass neck on you to essentially accuse them of lying when they defend MJ. Get back in your lane."

Wait a minute. So it's ok for others to essentially accuse the victims of lying when they accused Jackson?

You also forget that they have seen just how dangerous, vicious, threatening and horrible some of his fans are. Want proof? Just go on Facebook or Twitter. His unhinged fans have said things like they hope Wade burns alive and far far worse. They've call the victims and other kids 'ugly'. They get very very personal with others who dare say Jackson is guilty (I have first hand experience of this) saying truly horrible things, harassing people online, messaging them with sick and nasty posts. Look, just go on twitter and facebook. Read some of their comments.
THEN ask yourself why would other victims remain silent? They've seen what happens to anyone who dares come forth with an allegation. My guess is neither Feldman or Culkin were or are in a good place mentally to deal with his hate-filled and unhinged fans.

The Evan Chandler recording wasn’t proven to be a fake, Salem.

@southeastdweller Actually, it was. I'll try and find where I read that.

The thing that troubles me about this thread is the viewpoint that the accusers never 'proved' that they were abused. What kind of proof do you want a child to provide? Many people never realise that they were abused, until later on in life. I cannot say whether or not MJ was an abuser, but it doesn't sit well with me to dismiss someone's allegations as lies. Especially those who went through a highly publicised court case, as children.

This site article (quite long) debunks that it was his insurance company who force Jackson to pay. Jackson also gave payouts to others that didn't go through the insurance company. www.mjfacts.com/the-jordie-chandler-settlement-revisited/

@SalemtheBIackCat
The full transcript of many of Evan's conversations were presented as evidence in court. Conversation that took place before his son confessed to anything so I can't see how they were proven as fake?
You can read them online but you'd need a few hours there's a lot of them.
I've only read about jury members concluding the witnesses were not credible and finding MJ innocent, because that is why actually happened. They didn't think he'd definitely done it then find him innocent thats nonsense. Innocent men have been sent to prison for years because of bias jury's without substantial evidence so that doesn't add up at all. If they thought he was guilty without evidence they would have had the power to find him guilty.
@Areyoufree
I agree that you shouldn't always need physical evidence to prosecute a child abuser as it's very difficult to prove. Without physical evidence you then need to look to the credibility of the witnesses and the surrounding circumstances. Abusers are put away just on the strength of witness testimony because they are credible and have no reason to lie.

@MissLanesAmericanCousin I am so sorry your family let you down and didn't believe you. That is awful. I hope you are surrounded by better people now .

The blind faith that people have in Michael Jackson because he can dance and sing is frankly, disturbing. None of us knew him. We only saw the persona he chose to portray. We need to believe those who DID know him.

Also, it would take a LOT of courage, more courage than I have probably, to follow through with a court case against someone so powerful and so influential.
Think about it. It would be so much easier to keep quiet. Unfortunately, I would not be surprised one iota if there were more victims who are reluctant to come forward.

@WatchingFromTheSidelines
Where is the blind faith?
No one has said he couldn't have done it because he was such a good singer, dancer and wonderful humanitarian (all facts btw but have nothing to do with whether he was innocent or not).

Where is the blind faith? Evident in every single one of your posts pollysproggle.

The relationship MJ has with 13 year old Terry George clinched his guilt for me. Terry George had no reason to lie and actually defended MJ. It really is upsetting that so many of these child rapists get away with it and die without justice. I hope we learn from all this.

@WatchingFromTheSidelines
Because I don't buy into the witch hunt? Have the ability to see and believe a different side to story based on actual facts?
No of course not, it's because I'm a fan, moonwalking round the kitchen and washing up with my sparkly glove, kissing my MJ posters goodnight believing in 'blind faith' that he's innocent.
I'll say again.
Investigated by the FBI for 10 years- nothing. Found innocent of all charges.
Home searched- nothing.
Strong evidence to support extortion and strong evidence against the credibility of witnesses. Fact.

Firstworddinosaur: "so many of these child rapists get away with it and die without justice. I hope we learn from all this."

"Die without justice" ** if they're dead how is it u think they got away with it?! Age 50 is a very young age to die, especially just before retirement & finally being able to relax.

Frankiesamson it's without justice because they were never punished and held accountable while alive. Their victims never got to see that happen.

Firstworddinosaur, they're dead! What more justice do u want