AIBU to be upset/angry at older man complaining about children in restaurant.

[Wakingwillow]

Just that really. This is my first post but I've been a long time fan of AIBU. We're visiting the UK for a family event.
We're a family of 6, four kids age 11, 9 and 15 mth twins. Staying in a chain family friendly hotel for the weekend. Extended family here also.
After activities today everyone was tired so we decided to have a group family meal in the hotel restaurant. Total 7 children and 8 adults. 5 of the older children (age 8 to 11) sat at a table together next to us. All were very well behaved stayed seated, coloured pages and chatted. The twins sat with adults and made usual toddler noises but nothing too disruptive imo. We had items to keep them entertained and also took them out to lobby area several times.
We arrived at 6pm but due to under staffing there was a delay taking orders and getting food to the table. Kids were served food about 7.20 pm. Adults at 8 ish. (That needs another thread 😐)
After the toddlers had eaten my husband and I took them upstairs cleaned them up, got their pj's on then went back down with them to eat our own meal.
Just as we started eating an older man came over to our table and said that we had ruined his and his wifes night with all our noise.
I really didn't know what to say. I felt an array of emotions, embarrased, upset and finally annoyed/angry. We apologised for the toddlers being disruptive, explained there had been a long delay in them getting food and said we were doing our best to keep them occupied. I also asked him what else could we do, they had to eat to which he responded they should be feed in the room.
I'm so surprised and upset by this. I've never had this happen before and I'm usually very considerate of other diners when we're out as I'm quite shy and don't like to draw attention.
This has really upset me.
I'm just wondering what others have done / would have done in this situation.

I would think your group must have been very noisy for him to bother to comment.

I've never complained to parents about the noise generated by their DCs but have simmered quietly - how loud were they?

I think the definition of 'family friendly' differs between parents.

To me, family friendly means that a restaurant caters for children with regards to menu options but doesn't meant that children are allowed to be noisy, scream or run riot.

From the OP's post she knew her children were being noisy as she admitted to having taken them out to the lobby several times. Plus children need adults to stimulate them and keep them entertained for long periods of time rather than just 'things' .
Parents need to entertain their children and not just expect the children to sit there and amuse themselves so they can have a conversation with other adults.

The other week I was with some friends in a family friendly restaurant and at a nearby table was a young child about 2 years old. She was shouting rather than talking and her parents mentioned to the waitress that 'she has certainly found her voice tonight' but they made no attempt to quieten her down.

People expect children to make a little more noise than adults but certainly do not expect them to make enough noise as to disturb other diners even if they are dining in a child friendly restaurant.

Cowjumping it's ironic you talk about ageism and then state pizza hut being for families only... I love pizza hut and I'm an adult 😉 hehe

We've deleted a few ageist posts on this thread - please do keep our TGs in mind when posting.

If there's anything we've missed - do feel free to send us a message to let us know.

Thanks all

It's possible that the 'elderly' couple could have hearing problems and a noisy table would ruin their evening out as they would be unable to speak to each other easily....not everyone wants exuberant children at a restaurant
I was frequently taken out for meals ,as a child,with my parents in the 70's and loved the experience
I've taken my out for meals in 'posh restaurants' from a reasonably early age( 4) , but usually at lunchtime when diners are less likely to be having a romantic meal

If the op was seated in the restaurant at 6pm and they didn't eat until 8pm then either the man complaining would be aware of the delay in serving, or he sat down after the ops party. So I think he is unreasonable.
I also agree that he was thought a woman with children is an easy target and doubt whether he would complain to a man.
For that alone I don't sympathise with him.

People, I really want to shout. Just be considerate of others. Sometimes you fail even if you tried, and feel grim, sometimes you do well. But you won't feel guilty if you have tried.

because if you're sitting there without kids it's easier to turn the other cheek. They were miserable feckers.

Ah, so here we have it. The entitlement of those who have produced a child. This obviously takes precedence over all else and means they can do as they like while completely disregarding everyone else. How very special they are. 🙄

I think the real problem stemmed from the failure of the restaurant to be adequately staffed to get the food out in a timely manner. Plus design: Family restaurants are not quiet, meditative places. They're even noisier these days because of the way they're designed: lack of soft furnishings, high ceilings, wood and metal everywhere etc means noise magnifies and bounces around the room. So even tables full of 'normal' indoor voices sounds quite loud.

And, the reality is, as we get older and our hearing starts to struggle to distinguish between various noises, rooms like these, full of talking people, can be quite difficult. I can only imagine a group of 15, half children, would be disheartening for many to see ... but then I feel that way about hen parties and stag dos and work or birthday parties that 'invade' restaurants ... they're just as loud and frequently louder and more boisterous than families. Yet no one complains about those for fear of repercussions, but are happy to complain about children, even if they're behaving pretty damn well.

Tolerance for anyone else is long gone. Sad, really.

bet if it had been a group of middle aged business men having a boozy dinner and making more noise than your children, he wouldn't have said a word to them.

The ageism thing baffles me a bit, OP gets jumped on for mentioning the man was older, however, it's perfectly acceptable to be intolerent of toddlers by virtue of their age. We've had posters on here saying that they wouldn't even sit on a table if there were toddlers nearby, before they have made a single noise!

Yes, parents do often think that the world revolves around them. Not saying that's true of the OP, but it's true of a lot of parents I know. We're so special because we produced a child. No your not, people have been having kids since the dawn of time. Get over yourselves!

While part of me thinks that noise kind of comes with the territory in "family friendly" establishments (which is why we avoid them), any party of 15, even if all adults, will be damn noisy. A party of 15 that includes 7 children, of whom 2 are toddlers, will be incredibly damn noisy. I think the man was a bit rude to be so direct though. In his shoes, I'd have asked to be moved to a quieter table.

Mind you, that sort of thing can backfire. We once cancelled an order in a pub a few minutes after a large family with badly behaved children rocked up. I went for a wee while DP was settling the bill, and when I came out and walked past their table, got filthy looks and overheard "That's the fucking bitch that complained".

Apparently, the landlord had come over and told them to keep their kids under control because they were upsetting other customers and he couldn't afford to lose any more orders.

Sometimes I go to places such as a restaurant or soft play and there will be a large family group totally dominating the place; taking up lots of room, talking loudly, kids shrieking, personal items everywhere, just generally acting like they own the place. Bringing your kids into a restaurant dressed in pyjamas is another example of this kind of dominant, taking over the place attitude.

I can imagine that this was the case here; your group probably totally took over the section of the restaurant he was seated in and acted like you were in your own homes.

“OP gets jumped on for mentioning the man was older, however, it's perfectly acceptable to be intolerent of toddlers by virtue of their age”
Toddlers generally behave in pretty predictable ways because they are toddlers. The chances are that they are not going to sit quietly for an hour discussing the state of the Labour Party or James Blake’s latest album.

tbh I had to give up going to a restaurant dd and I liked because it was always full of groups of youngish to middle-aged businessmen speaking very, very loudly

not drunkenly obnoxious, just making an awful lot of noise, laughing very loudly at their own jokes

a bunch of toddlers would have to be having simultaneous screaming tantrums to reach anything like the same volume

these days I tend to avoid places which attract this kind of customer because I do find them...well, rather predictable

and btw I am getting on for old, my children are adults and childless

dd who works as a waitress agrees with me: for real volume you can't beat middle-aged men

If you want a quiet adults only meal then you need to go to a fancy restaurant not a chain hotel that caters to families. Idve told him to go fuck himself. I dont know how people keep calm with these CFs sometimes. Who on earth sits in a hotel room feeding their kids dinner when there is a restaurant downstairs which is happy to cater for children??

As far as I can see (not read the whole thread - mea culpa), he didn’t complain about the toddlers, he complained about you as a group. There were 15 of you it’s unlikely you were quiet! I’m afraid I’d have made a fuss about the slow service after waiting 20 minutes as tired hungry children do not go with a relaxing meal. That said, he probably should have complained to the restaurant rather than you, but maybe he did and they just shrugged. Too many unknowns to judge reasonably.

There are plenty of perfectly well-behaved children that go regularly to restaurants - I’ve seen many a delightful toddler - but generally it’s very hard work for the parents who need to be constantly engaged with them,

As regards the ageism, yup I’m with those that consider it unacceptable and irrelevant here and commend the folk who have called it out. I’m frequently shocked by the ageism and vitriol against older people I read on Mumsnet.

Oh, and my 84 year old mother is far more tolerant of young children than my 18 year old who essentially thinks they should be banned from restaurants, planes and all public places if they make any noise at all.

Wonder why didn't he move? I would have. I'm long past toddler stage and I admit, I didn't like the stage and don't care for toddlers.

“Men now in their seventies often lived in a child free world after they left home for work. Just remember that younger working men and women are now the ones paying for their pensions, smile sweetly and ignore!”

I assume poster had tongue firmly in cheek as they worked both the sexist and ageist assumptions into their comments.

Where I go to work, it is only adults.
Completely child free, but what can you do?

Of course, only people paying tax are of consequence.
It is only right that anyone legally & entitled to be in receipt of payment from the state is not worthy of everyday courtesy, consideration and respect.

Get me to a slippery slope, I am on my way...

I genuinely take no notice of other people's noise levels when I'm in a restaurant. As long as they're not literally screaming in your face, I fail to see hoe it impacts on you talking to the person you're with.
I think I actually prefer noisy restaurants.

15 People isn't a family meal it's a crowd
When I go out for dinner with my siblings and their children there’s 16 of us.
Judging by the number of deletions there must have been a shit-load of ageist posts!

Loving the old trope of "people hate kids in this country" bollocks.

The one thing my Italian family always comment on in UK restaurants is how does it happen that Brits are generally known for being civil, polite, they queue, they apologise, they sit quietly on trains but sit them at a table and it's like they revert to some neanderthal primeval gruntathon.