to think pamper parties for primary school children is not appropriate

[dancinginthehall]

I don't want to de-rail another thread, so thought I'd start a new one. My 9 year old niece has been invited to a couple of these recently and doesn't particularly enjoy them. Her parents aren't particularly keen either.

AIBU to wonder why young girls can't just remain children for a while and not have these grown up style events pushed on them? Surely at 9 party games or bowling or a trip to the cinema is more appropriate than having their make up and nails done?

Well I will certainly accept that football has its toxic elements...just last night I was hearing about teen referees being beaten up by parents!

But that's the extreme. Body confidence and self esteem issues is the run of the mill outcome for engaging with the cosmetics industry for what is approaching the majority of girls. The cosmetics industry also has its proper toxic extremes too...suicides, drug use, sexual assault, rape, annorexic models, and children used in global advertising campaigns, exploitation....all pretty sick.

For the majority of kids, playing football has net benefits. There are no net benefits for any kids engaging in cosmetics use.

What Ratbagratty said sounds fine. I'd have liked something like that at same age.

@DonCorleoneTheThird that photograph is of gypsy / traveller girls. Their entire culture is dubious in terms of the denigration and objectification of women. To take that image and compare its context to girls having a bit of glitter chucked on their faces and nails at a party but also being encouraged to excel at school, enjoy fresh air and sport, well anything they bloody like really is making an unfair connection.

I was allowed to play with makeup and hair styles nail varnish etc as a young girl.
I also rode my bmx bike, played netball and ran for my school. I did well academically and went to university and had a good career. During all of his I wore makeup. Sometimes even glittery nails.

I think also what @GerryblewuptheER wrote about if a boy wanted to paint his nails pink is very true.

If a 7 year old girl wanted a party learning about engineering or woodwork they'd be putting bunting out.

Why can't we stop this obsessing and projecting?

But that's the extreme

Racism and sexism in football isn’t the extreme. It’s a daily battle.

I somewhat facetiously mentioned football parties. But surely if we’re saying one type of party has a negative effect we must consider the negative effects of another?

@Anita makeup is not good for the skin. It never will be, despite what they tell you in their glossy advertisements

I TOTALLY agree with you. I am very much in the minority though at my dc primary school. Apparently my views are invalid anyway as I have boys ....

My daughter doesn't even associate make up as 'making her prettier'. It's a bit of fun the same way having her face painted at a party is fun. I rarely wear make up but used to play around with my mums as a child and loved having my nails painted. Now I'm in my late 20s and never have my nails done and rarely wear make up. I don't have any beauty treatments done as its just not something that interests me and I can't afford to.

I wouldn't stop DDs going to a pamper party, but some of the offerings make me cringe somewhat and we've never had one.

Yabu

The average UK 9 year old is watching YouTube videos featuring makeup so parties are an extension of that. There is nothing wrong with not being interested in makeup but also nothing wrong with being a bit intrigued.

BarbarianMum - no and I will admit my heart sank a bit when my son started claim he loved marvel to fit in when I could tell he wasn't interested really but yes, I do think there is some definite differences between boys and girls as much as people don't like it. I am not in the least bit girly I don't wear make up, my hair is a mess and I wear trousers 99% of the time. But both my daughters were very girly from an early age. You could argue my second looked up to her sister but my first only had a brother and a house full of dinosaurs and cars. She still was drawn to pink glittery things and dolls at the stay and plays we went to. She was still OBSESSED with babies in a way my son never was (and he had the real thing with her). This was way before shed be able to be consciously aware of what others were doing. My son was always obsessed with cars. He had teddies and mainly gender neutral things but he always chose cars. I let him choose his own stuff and would have bought him dolls of he showed an interest at the stay and plays but the closest he came was wanting a toy pram to push his cars in. None of this has come from me and his dad isn't bothered about toys either so yes, I do think there is a difference.
Now they are older they have started doing directions as part of their maths. My son got it just by looking at the screen, my daughter turned the screen round each time so she was facing the same way, a typical 'feminine' response according to experts. My son would drive a toy car and do 3 point turns at the age of 2 to park it. My daughter would drive it back and forth bashing into things, no direction at all. I'm not saying all girls are one way and all boys are another but I do genuinely believe there are some natural differences between the 2 genders

It's amazing that people think enjoying having painted nails has something to do with your future career. Really bizarre.

Football is vile - very thankful my son prefers art and nail polish.

But that's the extreme. Body confidence and self esteem issues is the run of the mill outcome for engaging with the cosmetics industry for what is approaching the majority of girls. The cosmetics industry also has its proper toxic extremes too...suicides, drug use, sexual assault, rape, annorexic models, and children used in global advertising campaigns, exploitation....all pretty sick

All my body issues came not from make up but from.spending years having to wear things like school uniform which made you feel fat ugly and self conscious. White shirts being embarrassing as you develope. The shirts making it look like you raided your grans wardrobe. I didn't realkybwear much make up except maybe some clear mascara and light brown eye shadow . I didn't feel I needed it I just wanted to not feel like a sack of potatoes.

Sometimes over analysing every thing is far more harmful.

I agree the extremes push a disturbing agenda and I think the stereo types pushed on both boys and girls are horrific. But I don't think making girls feel they are somehow contributing to all that's wrong with the world by wanting to wear make up is the way to go. Girls aren't responsible for how others view them. And boys are celebrated for doing the very things girls are now being taught are toxic.

So true WhyDontYou

I like wearing make up. But I've also just written my first book, and have an Economics degree.

And I've NO FUCKING IDEA what I did for my 9th birthday. But it wasn't make up or economics

that photograph is of gypsy / traveller girls.

Yes, I am aware of that, and posters are spectacularly missing the point here! As I said it's from a tv show, where the participants have agreed and know their image is being shown.
I cannot show you a photo of a local little girl, looking exactly as tarted up after a party. To be fair, some of the make-up advertised by these pampering companies are a lot worst anyway.

Pamper make-up party at 15, or for a hen night? Why not. For a primary school child: no.

But I've also just written my first book

Congratulations!

Do hope you’re putting a foreword in as to how long it takes you to get ready, just so we know whether to take your work seriously.

So much judging on this thread!

Regardless of whether it's right or wrong to have this type of party, surely if you know ahead and don't want you DD to go you just politely decline? Or if there are reasons why this isn't easy to do you can let DD go, she may enjoy it in the context of having fun and then after you can have a light conversation about it later and why it's just that, fun. We can teach our kids that being a girl/woman isn't all make up and glitter surely!

But then I wear make up, enjoy having my haircut and still dare to call myself a feminist so perhaps I'm taking crap

Dd1 had a football party and a go karting party. Dd2's favourite was going to some shops with a select few friends and getting make up , nails or face scrub done at the Body Shop. I don't think dd2's interests or preferences are inferior to dd1s or harmful. She's a few years older now, interested in politics, Harry potter, reads two books a week and doesn't buy much make up. She's also really thrifty and aware of marketing and sexism. Let kids be kids indeed but let them be true to their own interests and grow up in the world they inhabit.

I have indeed Jacques, so that I can weed out anyone who was hoping for a learned work of serious intent. After all, I did lose 20 minutes a day when I could have been doing more research.

To me pamper party = teach children to spend ridiculous amounts on unnecessary and possibly harmless 'beauty' products.

"Pamper make-up party at 15, or for a hen night? Why not. For a primary school child: no."

But, like....why?? 15 is ok by you. But 9 isn't. So is 10, 11, 12 ok? You remember we're still talking about a one-off thing with glitter and hair crayons right, and not daily usage?

My daughter doesn't even associate make up as 'making her prettier'.

How do you know this? Have you asked her? I bet you are wrong. Ask her why she likes wearing make up (presuming she is primary school age).

My DD said to me the other day. Mum my lips are too thin at the top. I told her she had lovely lips and everyone is different. Do you think my DD would be worried about her lips if everywhere she looked there weren't models with big fat plumped up covered in lipstick lips.

Do you think it is good to have primary school DC interested in how beautiful they look? I personally think they have enough time to get obsessed with how they look when they are older. They don't need encouraging with all this make up stuff when they are at Primary school.

But then I wear make up, enjoy having my haircut and still dare to call myself a feminist so perhaps I'm taking crap

The weirdest thing is it's other women who are far more invested or far more critical of eachother over this stuff.

I know.plenty of jobs have a dress code. And obviously Many are sexist outraged dress codes.

But I'm.the only one who wears any make up where No work. The customers who are mostly men don't care or notice.

Dp wouldn't care or notice.

How many partners don't bother going shopping with us cos a dress is a dress and they can't he arsed with the hours if debating if it makes you look fat.

Any of the usual crap gotten from men, well get haven't exactky been looking at my face . Nor has it only happened when dressed a certain way. Everything from mini shorts and boob tubes to jogging bottoms and over sized parkas.

May be we are part of the problem?

Sometimes there's a bigger picture that we should all be aware of and fight against and I am against this of course

But sometimes there's just an excuse to be nasty and judgmental dressed up as being concerned or sticking 2 fingers up at society.

Far more damage is done by the daily messages we send to our children. Bow we allow our partners to treat us. How we view ourselves. How we stop out children from doing things because we are worried what others would think. Because we renincapabke of seeing a middle ground between a flower tattoo at a party and pole dancing in hooters.

What harm exactly?

I bet you I'm not wrong as I have spoke to her about it. We had a discussion when she was wearing lipstick for her dance show and I told her that it would be a one off (as it was pink) and how she doesn't need make up to make her pretty. She said she knows this but it's 'exciting' to be allowed to wear it for that night and then asked if she was allowed a face painting kit so I could make her a cat. So she would have been equally happy up on that stage with a cat face or a bit of lipstick. In fact given the choice I am certain she would have chosen cat face over lipstick face. She has never once shown any concern about how she looks. Of course it's sad any child thinking that way but having her nails painted and a bit of sparkly lipgloss while playing musical statues has not affected her whatsoever.