Social services..

[CandyCreeper]

Posted recently about my sons school referring me to SS. I had a phone call this evening at 6pm on my landline from what appears to be the LA phone number. Im taking it its social services? (not expecting anything else) but aibu in thinking it is an odd time to call? I missed it as have been in bed with flu this also means my house isnt at its best because im ill, can/will they turned up unannounced??

@CandyCreeper

They do make mistakes

The will also hold it against you if you hold your cards to close to your chest

Please try and be calm, show that you have nothing to hide and communicate that you are open to advice and questions etc.

OP do you know if a SW has been into school to speak to staff....see your son.

scenario*

Bloody hell, SS are damned when they do and damned when they don't aren't they? One slips through the net and it's all 'SS didn't pick it up, they've failed', they investigate an allegation and it's 'be careful, they'll ruin your life'. A SW can visit me any day of the week, you too hopefully. Even if one is sick and has been unwell, we'll tell them that. We will be able to feed our children, because we must whether we're sick or not. Our children will have toys and a place to play. We may well have overflowing washing baskets and washing up to be done but the children will have safe, clean beds to sleep in. Warmth and food. If you are so unwell you can't provide that you need external help. If you can they'll visit another day and as it's a short term thing being unwell the bins/ washing/ mess will be dealt with because you're no longer too unwell to do it. If not it's a problem. They're not the enemy.

I dont know a single person who wouldnt be worried about a social services visit over alleged abuse.

And to the pp who said “poor me” sarcastically, I have no idea what I have as its not advised to go to the Gp with my symptoms as they get better on there own. I have a chesty cough (coughing up phlegm) pounding headache, feel light headed and feel sick (haven't vomited yet though as haven't eaten today because of it) Had loose bowel movements so im guessing what I have, all I know is I feel shit and have struggle to keep on top of the house work with a baby into everything and 3 older boisterous kids!

If you aren't open with them that will raise red flags. They have so many kids in the system that they do not remove children except as a last resort. I suspect your sister's friend has more to the story. A malicious report will not get kids removed. They are already overburdened.
Look at is as they are there to make sure your kids are safe and taken care of. They want the same things for your kids as you do.

They wont know I have anxiety so 🤷‍♀️

Not sure on the full story of my sisters friend but please dont pretend they dont make mistakes.

Child protection SW can phone at 6pm. They are often very busy. They usually phone to make an appointment, they usually want appointments to happen quickly.

They don’t usually turn up unannounced, unless you fail to keep appointments, try to fob them off etc.

They will make a note of your house.

None of us would positively welcome SS trotting into to our houses, particularly unannounced (there's only about a 30 min window per week in my house, where it's no notice visitor ready...)

But please listen to posters advising you not to be defensive and uncooperative. SS only remove children as a very last resort, and need to go to court to get permission to do that. They work with families to try to keep them together as far as possible. Of course mistakes are made, and the mistakes can be devastating. But in the vast majority of cases mistakes that are made are corrected (because there are so many hoops to jump through, so many layers of scrutiny to reports and proceedings) with minor impact on families.

I know things a shitty for you right now, please don't compound that by preventing SS from closing the file on you as soon as possible

Op it's really not as simple as one social worker makes a mistake = lose your children.
Not in the slightest suggesting that this would be relevant in your scenario, but a social worker on their own cannot remove children. At most, if they were really worried, they could ask if someone could stay with you or if the kids could stay with family/friend - but if there isn't anyone, they can't make that suggestion as it's really only in scenarios where it's normal/straightforward for the kids (eg they usually stay at grannies every week or so, so if we're worried and want to be on the safe side can they just have an extra sleepover to buy us a bit of time to work out what's going on?)
Any steps that a SW wants to take that is beyond that normal support network requires more justification/more evidence because the impact on the children is greater. So for example, if I wanted the children to stay a night away from a parent in more unusual circs ie like a family member where this wasnt part of their routine, at the very least I'd need your agreement and a senior manager to approve it. If the parent didn't agree I could only do that if the police (specially trained police, not a bobby on the beat) agreed it was necessary which is pretty much risk to life (eg abandoned children, intoxicated parents, very severe neglect). Even that is a maximum 72hrs, and the reason for the timescale is so if it happens on a Friday night SWs can get it before a court on Monday/Tuesday (court isn't available on a weekend). Anything beyond the above requires a court order, for that it's a court hearing where there's one SW/legal rep, reps for parents + reps (guardian) for the child so it's certainly not stacked in the favour of social workers.

I'm not in the slightest suggesting that removing children would be on the mind of a SW picking up the referral you've described. Just trying to dispel the myth that a minority of posters seem to push, they they knew someone who sneezed funny near a social worker and their kids were whipped out under their noses. It doesn't happen.

Also, I can tell you the above and you might still think I'm just biased from being in the system, but as an alternative explanation - we all know councils are skint. Cost of issuing care proceedings (neccesary for removal of a child from parents) - approx £20,000. Cost of a IFA foster placement - anywhere between £800-3000 a month. Cost of a children's home - anywhere from £1500-5000 a WEEK. So if you don't believe it on ethical grounds, please believe it on financial - the state really isn't going to stay involved unless they absolutely have to, because there's an ever increasing number of children who sadly do need a service to keep them safe, and there's not a lot of money in the pot to do so!

Just beware they can find out you have anxiety.
They can contact your GP
Also if they or any other professional pick up on you feeling anxious that will be wrote down in the report
(Writing from experience)

That’s not a threat that’s their statutory duty to safeguard your child!

This is so true. I've had a lot of dealings with SWs, having been through the adoption process and also because of my MH issues connected with my own traumatic childhood.

I haven't always found it easy dealing with them but I've never had any reason to doubt that they had my DDs' best interests at heart. And it was thanks to the involvement of a SW in our life that my DD1's needs were finally taken seriously by their school.

I think they have bad press; they're damned if they do take action and damned if they don't.

I’m a social worker and have been out on so many visits where it’s clearly just things being misunderstood by the referrer. Unfortunately once it comes through to the duty team, we have to complete an assessment even if it’s looking to be a quick write up and close. Your best bet OP is to stay calm, cooperate and if your son is telling porkies, I assure you he won’t be the first and he won’t be the last, your social worker will be able to see through this but obviously they need to meet that child in order to discover this. I always turn up announced because I like to see people in their normal environment, I’m not looking for a bit of mess, I’m looking for serious signs of neglect. Also, with physical abuse allegations, it’s normal for social workers to turn up unannounced anyway in order to reduce the risk of further harm to the child before getting a chance to speak to them face to face.

They have to have consent to speak to your GP.

Also I didn't mean to suggest you were wrong to feel anxious about a social worker visiting, anyone coming to your house is in your personal space and a professional (whether it's a social worker or a delivery driver) should respect that. Just please try not to think of it as a threat. It's also entirely up to you about not telling them about anxiety, but please bear in mind that if they know they might be able to help put you at ease whereas if they don't know they can't take it into account. A good social worker will do what they can to accommodate and take things into account (it's common for example to meet parents who have mental health issues/disabilities/learning needs/literacy difficulties just because any of those things adds extra pressure to being a parent, and it's naturally parents who are under more pressure that we come into contact with)

@CandyCreeper

I don’t think you need to go “full frontal” with SS, as it were, if they visit and everything goes well then you shouldn’t have to disclose your anxiety condition. However if they ask about your state of mind you can say, well within reason, that their being there is a bit stressful without it sounding odd or defensive. If you feel a time comes where discussing the anxiety with them will help you, then do so :)

Of course they make mistakes too, so you’re not in the wrong for feeling as you do, but (and I know this is so much easier said than done!) try to keep yourself centred, maybe have somebody trusted on call (if feasible) who can arrive at short notice to have as a witness if that eases your mind? I was very lucky to have FIL do this for me as he only lives a few minutes away. He wouldn’t butt in or react, just sit there as an “active listener” and be perfectly amicable whilst doing so. His presence calmed me loads xx

Child protection don’t have to get your consent for info from GP, they ask for your signed consent. However, can get the info with or without.

My house is generally a tip. I am crap at housework and cannot always do much physical activity for long. I am also a bit of a hoarder.

My Ex and his family give me a lot of grief about my parenting and the state of the house. I was very scared they would report me and I'd lose my child.

I talked to a few friends who work for/with social services. They all laughed and said my house was fine and they thought I was a great parent and dealt very well with a difficult child. They admired my patience whilst I was worried about shouting after some bad behaviour.

They were actually impressed by the toys that seemed to be scattered over every area of the house. I saw mess - they saw age appropriate toys.

Basic things are clean bathroom, clean fridge, food in cupboards, bedding on beds, children dressed in suitable clothing. No overflowing bins and not too many unwashed pots.

I wasn't going to comment, but now my fingers are itchy.

I am hoping to start studying Social Work in September and I do a lot of volunteering within that sector.

OP, if you're a lone parent of 4, SW could be a great source of support.

They can refer you to voluntary services like Home-Start, refer you for a support worker if you need help with other things, beyond checking that your children are safe, they can be a great source of signposting and extra support.

Try and see it as an opportunity, you might be able to tap into services and ressources you didn't know existed e.g. Baby Banks, Mental Health support groups, Social Prescribers etc.

When my twins came home from NICU I had SS on my doorstep and boy was that a surprise, came from one concern a nurse had reported over my partner not attending NICU regularly/or for great lengths of time

WTF?!

This wouldn’t automatically be CP, it would be CIN, and under the new data protection law they would need your consent to contact your GP unless there was an immediate reason for safeguarding which considering they haven’t been out to see the OP yet - there clearly is not.

Also, being defensive from the off OP is not a good way to start a positive working relationship. The vast majority of my families have anxiety, depression, another type of mental health illness etc. I don’t judge them from it, I just want to know if they’re accessing appropriate support eg gp, taking medication as prescribed, any other support they may need that I can help with etc. I find it more unusual to ask a parent if they have or have had any mental health issues (or any health issues) for them to say none! I have OCD that I’m medicated for - I’m not in a place to judge. However, if I go to a house and say Mum has anxiety issues and the place is unhygienic/dangerous/neglectful, I’d be looking at reasons why that might be. For some parents it’s depression and a lack of motivation or willing to change. For others it could be a physical disability that they need help with. The more information you share, the more likely you will access any support needed. And if no support is needed and there are no safeguarding concerns, your social worker will happily do a quick write up assessment and close.

Silly people on mumsnet scaremongering. I don’t know a single social worker that went into the profession to break up families.

pooley my understanding is it cannot be escalated to CIN until an assessment has taken place and it has been established exactly what a child is in need of. There is an escalation criteria ie initial assessment, core assessment, CIN plan. The case can be closed after initial assessment or escalated to next stage.

Allegations of any kind of abuse will be CP.

I would add I’m not saying that SW will ask for consent for medical records. Just that if they do and you refuse, they can get the info regardless.

Honestly OP, you seem intent on creating as much drama for yourself as possible when you really don’t need to. The more you clam up and avoid them/their enquiries about what’s going on, the longer it will take to deal with while they try to get to the bottom of the problem(s). By behaving in such an evasive way without explaining your anxiety and things, it just leads to more questions, not less.

I say this as someone who has been medicated for anxiety and depression since childhood. I’ve also had long, drawn out involvement from social services in relation to DV. It was hard, I had a panic attack when told they had to step in. No one made me feel like a bad mother, no one gave me a hard time about relying on anti depressants or that my room in refuge was a mess at times. They just wanted to see for themselves my children were clean and fed, attending school, I was keeping them safe and healthy and was engaging with everyone I should be and accepting assistance.

Assuming their involvement is solely because your very young child embellished the truth at school this will all be cleared up fairly quickly I’d have thought.