Social services..

[CandyCreeper]

Posted recently about my sons school referring me to SS. I had a phone call this evening at 6pm on my landline from what appears to be the LA phone number. Im taking it its social services? (not expecting anything else) but aibu in thinking it is an odd time to call? I missed it as have been in bed with flu this also means my house isnt at its best because im ill, can/will they turned up unannounced??

I have to say Spero is totally unbiased! She offered to help me in a case against SS!

I don’t think audio recording is a bad idea. It’s cheap and easy to store. It provides clarity for everyone involved, it would give parents more confidence they wouldn’t be misrepresented and would reduce admin.

The human memory is notoriously unreliable so it would improve accuracy and it would enhance the relationship between parents and SS if it could be used to solve arguments etc.

Oh, and it could make SWs safer too.

scotschic, I totally believe some people have very bad experiences with SS. I think partly because of their understaffing people who would be sacked in any other line of work are retained.

But that netmum’s thread, I take it with a big pinch of salt. I know a poster who was very vocal on netmums about this issue was eventually convicted of quite serious crimes against his children.

Who would keep audio recordings?

Bearing in mind we are talking about sensitive personal data relating to children.

It's not just about keeping them, who would ever listen to them? When I inherit a case there can be referrals, meetings, child protection/, CIN/CLA processes going back years, literally hundreds of pages of casenotes, along with uploaded documents, minutes, reports etc. At least when they're text I can skim read, filter and search. If I had a list of MP3 files I could guarantee they would never get listened to. I don't think anyone recommending this as a solution has any idea what the job practically entails.

I think the point some were making about audio recordings is for evidence of something being said etc, when it wasn’t etc. To be looked back on, if needed.

Not for purpose of transferring info as you describe. So usual procedure of note taking etc, disagreement, it’s been recorded type of thing, let’s check.

SS bother lots over really nothing because of the serious bad cases that have ended as murder and serious abuse that they have not bothered doing there job properly on, as usually these bad cases it comes out that they have done appalling checking when reports have gone in etc.
So they then go into overdrive usually after big cases in the papers and news and usually end up going overboard over nothing to try and make there profession look good again to the detriment of those that unfortunately end up in there eyes during them times.
In hope to put your mind at rest some if it was a few days ago they must not see it as a serious issue or they would have been to see you already.

Anout recording as done have mentioned ,as long as the interview is in your home your entitled to record as you so wish.

Anyhow I don’t think I agree with parents recording meetings and keeping the recording. It is obviously a highly emotive time. What’s to stop parents sharing bits of the recordings?

I remember watching on Facebook, not so long ago, a dad recording SS and police taking his children. Anyone else see it? They were kicking, screaming, calling for their dad, saying they wanted to stay there etc. Very, very sad, heartbreaking. Then reading the comments, one of which was supposedly his ex, saying he had no contact with his previous children, for good reason etc. He did x, y, z.

It should not have been on Facebook is my point, regardless of who did or didn’t what.

You can record anything you want on your own property

When my son was in year two he told the school we didn't let him drink water. He told them he has to suck water off his toothbrush when he brushes his teeth...

There was a grain of truth in this which was he was a bed wetter so only a small drink between dinner and bedtime... he didn't realise his lie was pretty silly considering he could have just drank from the bathroom tap if he was that thirsty rather than go through the hassle of sucking it off his toothbrush! 😂

SS keep written records securely so I don’t see why audio ones would be different, they’re all secured online though. It’s not so much expecting people to go back and listen, as the other poster said, it would be more a case of settling disputes about what was said, clarifying points etc, for management review if allegations of misconduct are made. Evidence that would be useful for SWs as well as parents.

Claw, agree not parent based recordings. That tape you refer to, I know many children who are awfully abused would be very, very reluctant to leave their abusers. They’re the only family they know, children can still love people who hurt them very, very much.

Can you? I thought you needed permission? Even in CP cases?

Anyhow regardless, I can why someone would be tempted to. I can see why someone would be tempted to then share it.

Our case was severely ‘mismanaged’, I can totally sympathise. Just not sure parents having a recording at a highly emotive time is a good idea.

Sorry that was in reply to Mary

bej that’s a good idea! What about data protection? Who could request a copy?

claw, I guess it would be treated in the same way written documents are, although to prevent broadcast, I suppose it would need to be either transcribed into a document or they would have to attend the offices to listen to the original under supervision.

bej There are certain circumstances where records can be withheld, audio or written, where the information might cause serious harm to the physical or mental health or safeguarding! Or similar etc, etc.

Back to square one!? Recording, but you can’t acess!

@Posterbook Thu 24-Jan-19 21:56:40
@scotschic we don't have secretaries. We dont have admin. We're not even allowed to ask the receptionist to let us know that people have arrived for a meeting, we have to give our mobile numbers for people to call us directly. It takes approximately four times as long as the recording to type it, I have 3 or 4 visits/meetings a day on top of emails and calls, it just isn't and never would be possible, because sadly not enough people care about children's services enough to fund it.

Take a touch typing or audio typing course then.

It's well easy to type from audio. Its the easiest type

Parents are allowed to record they're just not allowed to share it. What do you think people do if they can't take notes?

And they (SS) do have to write up their notes after a meeting. They might not get the time to IRL but it is part of the job

What would be the purpose of recording, if you cannot share it to prove it was/wasn’t said?

Sorry just to add if I was a sw I would definitely record - and yes much quicker to do meeting notes from audio and surely touch typing is a must for such a role ... but I have missed the point of the thread.

If I was getting investigated I would:

Make sure the house was spic and span. Much like I like having the house ready for visitors.

Make sure fridge was full.

Make sure Kids were bathed and in pjs reading or doing some quiet crafts - just like I would if I had a visitor at night.

Make sure they had been fed.

I would record the conversation

I would have a witness with me

I would be pleasant but if for example I suffered from anxiety I would not at all raise it.

I would be honest but not more open than I felt necessary.

Why? I am sure social workers are just like others, some are good, some are excellent, soon are poor and some will be dreadful.

And then when they left I would listen to the recording with my adult witness and talk though it and then I would relax and be glad it was over.

I would also be quite particular with the school in that I would make sure teeth were cleaned, uniforms ironed and children arrived on time etc because I would never ever want to go through a referral again.

Obviously I would understand that social workers do a very important and powerful job as they can change lives and protect children.

And I guess my whole concern with social services is that they can lead to family court and family court means secrecy and not transparency.

I have no concerns with my children but I do know that people are human - social workers lawyers judges etc can all make mistakes and really what concerns me if that mistakes can be made and clouded in secrecy it can be difficult to ensure if you are that one person wrongly accused then it can be an uphill battle.

Anyhow this thread has been interesting for hearing the perspective of social workers.

Sorry and one other think the social workers who help I don't see how hey can actually help if they are underfunded and overworked but I guess what they do is refer people to organisations that can help?

I take it that they are information gatherers who pass on and give advice ? Is that correct?

@pinkeey This may differ from area to area but - what help a family will get from social services depends on the individual need if a family and the level if concern. So for example if there is a low level of concern but they think that a family could do with some help around parenting such as strategies for managing the children's behaviour without resorting to snacking / shouting at the child, or if they need help with routines such as a regular bedtime, mealtimes, or perhaps budgeting or checking they are getting all benefits they are entitled to - they might sign this family to 'family support' which may be through a family support worker at a school, a children's centre or employed by the local authority or charitable organisation such as Barnardo's. This support may be organised as an 'Early help' package or a CAF and there won't be social worker involvement. It is up to the family if they accept this help.

If the level of concern is higher the social worker will do an assessment of need and bat out together a Child in Need plan which will bring together support offered through the social worker, school, health visitor and any other organisation dependant on the family's need. The social worker will monitor this and there will be meetings between every body involved approx 6 - 8 weeks to see how things are going and if the family still needs support.

If they are really concerned such as if there appears to be a high level of neglect or police call outs to a violent situation between parents which the children have witnessed, the social worker will then ask for a child protection conference which will be attended by representatives from school, health visitor, school nurse and police . If they agree that a child protection plan is needed then the family have to legally work with this and this is when the social worker will do unannounced visits to monitor. The social worker will involve any other agencies needed dependant on the needs of the family e.g. They may require parents to get support for an alcohol or drugs problem. Social services will only request to go to court if after several months the parents are not making any effort to do what is asked. At the point that they do this they will look to see if there are any other family members can look after the children (thus can be short or long term) as local authority care is seen as a very last resort.

The thresholds around the different levels of concern are likely to be different in different areas. To some extent it will depend on the judgement of the individual social worker but as you get into more serious concerns they will involve the opinions of other agencies working with a family and their manager.