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To think the only people who want 'Nn Deal' have no idea what this means?

650 replies

KennDodd · 22/01/2019 17:47

And don't believe you if you tell them. Facts and laws just seem to be wafted away as irrelevant.

OP posts:
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Snog · 25/01/2019 22:49

Surely under no deal we will continue to trade with the EU?

MrsTerryPratcett · 25/01/2019 23:05

@Snog of course. But our current system is frictionless, tariff free, just in tune (so no storage), all agreed, perfect essentially in terms of ease and timing

If we crash out we will need border checks, tariffs, agreements, a whole ton of extra staff, paperwork and messing around.

And we haven't agreed anything yet so we won't be able to trade on 30th March if we don't.

DangermousesSidekick · 25/01/2019 23:14

The border checks, extra staff and paperwork etc are not ready to go, is the point.
Thanks for that article Quietrebel. Disturbing stuff. I understand lower class anger, I really do - I've had it myself most of my life - and I can't quite believe that things have been allowed to go this far.

mobyduck · 26/01/2019 02:39

This is both serious and humorous reading from the Guardian:www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/25/rees-mogg-brexit-emergency

mobyduck · 26/01/2019 02:42

This is the article:
Although he failed to emerge from an Airbus waving it, MP Mark Francois had in his hand a piece of paper. “My father, Reginald Francois, was a D-day veteran,” he thundered to the news cameras on Friday, shortly before ripping up the aforementioned document. “He never submitted to bullying by any German. Neither will his son.”
Leaving aside the somewhat bathetic description of Rommel’s Atlantic Wall defences as “bullying”, can you guess what Mark’s piece of paper actually was? Certification of a history doctorate? (He amusingly already holds an MA in war studies.) A letter from his future self reading simply “Don’t be a thermonuclear dick, Mark – it ends badly”?

I’m afraid not. The document was in fact a widely reported missive from the German CEO of Airbus, Tom Enders, who employs 14,000 people in this country and supports a further 110,000 jobs in the supply chain. This week he expressed intense frustration that “more than two years after the result of the 2016 referendum, businesses are still unable to plan for the future … If you are still really sure that Brexit is best for Britain,” Enders concluded, “come together and deliver a pragmatic withdrawal agreement.” Or, as Francois counter-reasoned: “Tom Enders was a German paratrooper in his youth.”

Jacob Rees-Mogg suggested that the Queen should, if necessary, suspend parliament to stop things not going his way

Incredibly, given this competition, Quote of the Week must still go to Nadine Dorries, who went on telly to express contempt for Brexit-cautious MPs “who really don’t care about their careers going up in flames”. Did the erstwhile gobbler of kangaroo testicles just say that out loud? To hear Nadine speak at the best of times feels like intruding on private stupidity, but even by her standards, this is eye-catching from the member for Mid-Bedfordshire. It can’t really be that Nadine should have been in parliament for almost 14 years without anyone informing her that politicians are in fact SUPPOSED to act out of a higher sense of duty than personal career advancement.

Far more believable is the idea that someone has actually flipped her wiring, so that the things Nadine ought to say remain only secret thoughts, while her inner monologue is now broadcast in all its epoch-illuminating glory. Hilarity ensues. Or possibly catastrophe. Ask me again in 63 days.

Indeed, as the Brexit clock ticks down, Nadine may well be regarded by future historians as the archetypal thinker of the era. Even at this incredibly late hour, vast swaths of parliament are doggedly placing self-interest above national interest, apparently bolstered by some vague belief that Britain is too big to fail. Or, as Holly Golightly liked to think of Tiffany’s, that nothing very bad could ever happen to you there. If they hold fast to their current priorities and shun the personal inconvenience of compromise, no deal could very conceivably be stumbled into.

Of course, there would be no stumbling about it for some. Consider the lavishly preposterous MP for Shrewsbury and Atcham, Daniel Kawczynski, who this week took it upon himself to announce that he has written to the Polish prime minister and requested “formally” that Poland veto any request by the UK to extend article 50. We can’t be sure what formal channels this MP believes himself to be operating within, but openly demanding that foreign powers subvert the will of the UK legislature did seem to be the second hottest take on parliamentary sovereignty in as many days.

    Boris Johnson Speechepa07296555 Britain’s former Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson delivers his Brexit speech at the JCB headquarters in Rocester, Britain, 18 January 2019. Johnson spoke about his vision for solving the Brexit deadlock as British Prime Minister Theresa May is holding talks with cabinet and party leaders.. EPA/NEIL HALL    

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‘It certainly feels more fitting than ever that Boris Johnson made last week’s speech at JCB in front of a great big hoe.’ Photograph: Neil Hall/EPA

The hottest take, as so often, belonged to Daniel’s European Research Group (ERG) colleague Jacob Rees-Mogg, who on Wednesday gave an address during which he suggested that the Queen should, if necessary, suspend parliament to stop things not going his way. Great to see that prorogation has officially entered the game, as yet another reminder that Brexit is rarely about the things it says it is about. Nothing says “I believe passionately in parliamentary sovereignty” quite as convincingly as demanding that the sovereign shut down parliament.

Rees-Mogg believes Britain could surf the wave of no deal. He’s really very like Patrick Swayze in Point Break in that respect – except with an opera coat, no charisma and zero personal exposure to the 50-year storm. Yet people continue to misread him as dependably as his father used to misread the future. At Wednesday’s event, the economist Roger Bootle introduced him as “a modest man … too modest, almost, for his own good”. To which the only sane reply is: lololololololol. If you had to distil into one personage the British people’s gibbering historical deference to terrible ideas advanced by low-to-middlebrow post-feudal shitlords who openly detest them, this plastic aristocrat would be it. Rees-Mogg is the logical end of whole centuries of barking up the wrong tree. In the most recent leadership polls of Tory members, obviously, he trailed only Boris Johnson.

And so to Brexit’s best-paid influencers. What an inevitability to learn that the former Brexit secretary David Davis has walked straight into a £60,000, 20-hour-a-year gig to advise the digger manufacturing firm JCB. That works out at £3,000 an hour, which feels like the sort of rate that might be expected if your workplace was a glass coffee table in Riyadh. Boris Johnson seems to be on ten grand a pop from the same source, suggesting he provides services too grotesque even for metaphorical allusion. It certainly feels more fitting than ever that he made last week’s speech at JCB in front of a great big hoe.
Perhaps the best that can be said for JCB’s Brexiteer chairman, Sir Anthony Bamford, is that his business is, at least for now, still headquartered in the UK. News that the leave advocate James Dyson is to relocate his HQ to Singapore is proving harder to spin, particularly given he’s said: “It’s to make us future-proof for where we see the biggest opportunities.” Still, it will be one upside if we’re no longer required to genuflect and defer to Dyson on matters other than suction. I wonder if it says something about Britain that its Greatest Inventor makes vacuum cleaners and hair dryers and so on. Nothing wrong with that, of course – we all need them. But it’s hardly the premier league of inventions. Oh, you can give it “the airblade” all you like. But faced with an attacking move by the creators of artificial hearts or water-powered engines, Dyson and his hand-dryers would be hopelessly outclassed.
Mark Francois may believe Britain could never be outclassed, even as he talks in a way that might reasonably be expected to appal the actual participants in events over which he has only heavy-breathed. But others on both the leave and remain sides may judge the UK’s self-respect to be hanging by a thread.

And that’s where we stand as Theresa May heads into the latest of her crunch weeks – although Philip Hammond has reinforced the government’s reputation for can-kicking by suggesting that Tuesday’s vote doesn’t have to be “the sort of high-noon moment … It’s a great British tradition to compromise and find a solution,” he judged on Friday, “rather than standing throwing rocks at each other from different sides of the argument.” Mmm. Is Hammond watching the same Brexit you’re watching? The UK’s mad yen for self-dramatisation is a big part of what got us here; perhaps the sense of ourselves as instinctively great at this stuff should be abandoned as the need for a solution moves into its emergency stage.

longwayoff · 26/01/2019 07:14

Thanks moby. Excellent article.

HesterShaw21 · 26/01/2019 07:29

Great article, moby! I don't know whether to laugh or cry at where we are right now with Brexit...

The flipped wiring phenomenon may be happening with many leavers.

"Far more believable is the idea that someone has actually flipped her wiring, so that the things Nadine ought to say remain only secret thoughts, while her inner monologue is now broadcast in all its epoch-illuminating glory."

bellinisurge · 26/01/2019 08:45

Brilliant read there @mobyduck . Also not sure whether to laugh or cry. Particularly about the piece of paper.

Buteo · 26/01/2019 09:16

Someone’s been tweaking Mark Francois’s wiki page - died 26.01.2019?

To think the only people who want 'Nn Deal' have no idea what this means?
mobyduck · 26/01/2019 15:29

The European Medicines Agency closes today with the loss of 900 jobs and the UK's world-leading research moving to the EU.
It is the arrogance of the Brexiter MPs that gets to me, they have total disregard for the people in the UK who need to work for a living rather than just serve as directors of trust funds and other huge companies.

pascalstriangle · 26/01/2019 16:02

Will we not need a UK medicines agency to test and implement standards for UK medicines? It is logical that the EMA would move to Europe with Brexit, but we will need something to replace it. Not 900 jobs worth, but I would imagine some of those 900 would be EU citizens who would move with the agency?

mobyduck · 26/01/2019 16:16

Will we not need a UK medicines agency to test and implement standards for UK medicines? It is logical that the EMA would move to Europe with Brexit, but we will need something to replace it. Not 900 jobs worth, but I would imagine some of those 900 would be EU citizens who would move with the agency?
I don't think it is quite that straight forward, we import many of our medicines so I expect we will accept their regulation via the EMA.
So it is just a needless loss.

greenelephantscarf · 26/01/2019 16:21

uk has the mhra.
but many medicines, especially vital cancer & diabetes medicines are authorised via the ema.
those licenses have to be sought by the pharmaceutical companies (=expensive) in addition to the regular eu licence from end of march.

funnelfanjo · 26/01/2019 18:45

MHRA licenses thousands of drugs already in the UK, it’s the newer and more important drugs (eg cancer treatments) that have been licensed via the Centalised Procedure (CP) of EMA.

Licenses for those CP products will be grandfathered to MHRA (mechanism in Mrs May’s deal). In the future, new drugs will have to be licensed separately, which means pharma companies have to do a separate of license application to MHRA. Timing of this will depend on the company and whether the U.K. market is big enough for them to bother doing it in their first wave of applications (EU, USA), or wait until after these markets have their application approved. Typically this second wave includes big but not massive markets such as Canada and Australia.

One option would have been to be in the same group of countries as Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein - while they are not part of the EMA, they have an agreement to be part of the CP mechanism. Not sure if we could join though if we aren’t in the Customs Union.

We used to do a huge amount of the heavy lifting of EMA application reviews (roughly 25%), due to the amount of expertise that the U.K. has. We’ve been world leaders in the pharma industry for decades, and it’s been dealt a massive blow. Companies that had significant EU investment in the U.K. due to that knowledge and proximity to EMA are now moving their E.U. sites to other countries. Also, there are complex rules about importing drugs to the E.U. and there are legal requirements for testing and release sites in the E.U. if you manufacture elsewhere in the world. If U.K. no longer in the E.U., then why have a major site here?

mobyduck · 26/01/2019 21:25

What could possible go wrong ...with Brexit?

From today's Guardian:
Thousands of British companies have already triggered emergency plans to cope with a no-deal Brexit, with many gearing up to move operations abroad if the UK crashes out of the EU, according to the British Chambers of Commerce.
Before a crucial week in parliament, in which MPs will try to wrest control from Theresa May’s government in order to delay Brexit and avoid a no-deal outcome, the BCC said it believed companies that had already gone ahead with their plans represented the “tip of the iceberg” and that many of its 75,000 members were already spending vital funds to prepare for a disorderly exit.
It said that in recent days alone, it had been told that 35 firms had activated plans to move operations out of the UK, or were stockpiling goods to combat the worst effects of Brexit.
Matt Griffith, director of policy at the BCC’s west of England branch, said that many more companies had acted to protect themselves since May’s Brexit deal was decisively rejected by MPs in the Commons earlier this month.
He said: “Since the defeat for the prime minister’s deal, we have seen a sharp increase in companies taking actions to try and protect themselves from the worst effects of a no-deal Brexit. No deal has gone from being one of several possible scenarios to a firm date in the diary.”

Justanotherlurker · 26/01/2019 22:01

mobyduck

For someone who didn't vote you have really doubled down on what you perceive as the winning side.

I think its a prime example of why this is a shit show and has cut across political leanings, we have the Guardian and some prominent leavers being pro business, even though they work on its own self interest and doesn’t give a fuck about the people of this country, hence why rules are in place to satisfy investors first and foremost and is also why they have opposed almost every workers right we have recently achieved.

People signal boosting shit on a pretence of being on the "right side of history" is why every brexit topic is just filled with nothing more than vocal remainers politely asking questions of leavers.

For every shit show that is Dyson, there is historical shit shows of multi nationals openly threatening not joining the Euro
www.theguardian.com/business/2000/jan/18/emu.theeuro

Even recently, HSBC threatening to leave due to having to pay up for the GFC.

You can be pro EU and be alarmed about the GDP and job losses, what you can't do however is pretend that being on that pro camp is somehow solely down to our governments. The vocal remainers are more often than not the neoliberals who loudly proclaim they are life long labour supporters. Shit show all round

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 26/01/2019 22:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mobyduck · 26/01/2019 22:27

Justanotherlurker- that article is 20 years old! A lot has changed since then!
And I know a lot of the working class voted out- I gave as examples Nissan Sunderland, the Hotel services staff I know, and Devon farmers (working class or middle class, depends on the size of the farm perhaps).
My point is, they were misled with a lot of hokum.

Justanotherlurker · 26/01/2019 22:30

oh dear now life long labour voters are neo liberal

I think recent scenarios have highlighted the issues, the previous labour government that had a decade in power is whitewashed as not true labour because they are neoliberal, and then elect a life long euroscpetic as leader in a return to principled, honest politics that has blown a gaping hole in being anti big business during the GE and now salivate over every big business warning.

And the EURO again...old old old. Try again

Intelligent response, there are multiple accounts of big business and economists saying not joining the euro would be disastrous. I'm just highlighting the soft science that life long labour supporters like you like are now so much in favour of.

The term champagne socialist is a thing, but I bet you are from working class routes as well.

If you want to tell me how the EU is not neoliberal however, feel free, I await in baited breath about how implementing Keynesian economics is the cure to all ills.

Justanotherlurker · 26/01/2019 22:46

that article is 20 years old! A lot has changed since then!

Do you not see the irony in that comment?

I am going to yet have to caveat that I am a remainer and yet accept neoliberal policies have fucked over the working class across europe.

The reason for bringing up that article is because the same big businesses used not joining euro as a threat, just as they did when Corbyn released his manifesto during the last GE, to pretend they care for the average uk citizen is bollocks.

To even pretend you are traditionally left wing and anti neoliberalism in the Brexit situation shows that its nothing more than surface level team sports.

The tories have fucked this up, but its going to tear a massive hole along the left as the vocal kind are going to have to accept that they are in fact centre right economically.

mobyduck · 27/01/2019 00:52

*that article is 20 years old! A lot has changed since then!

Do you not see the irony in that comment?*

you don't have a view and I will block you.

mobyduck · 27/01/2019 08:20

There is an article in the Guardian this morning, West Yorkshire, which has suffered massive redundancies since it's coalmine and other heavy industry closed quite recently, voted out by 70% in the referendum.
So Burberry and Haribo, who are their main employers, are now feeling threatened because they depend upon the EU for trade and supply and can't tolerate a No Deal, which the UK is still insisting is a possibility!
You couldn't make it up! Just let them get on with it! Do the stupid fuck's really believe China and the US care about them and their jobs?

surferjet · 27/01/2019 09:50

Very much doubt we’ll leave without a deal.
Only a couple of months left now so it’s TM’s WA - with its little tweaks.
Not enough time for anything else.

( brexiteers - do you have the countdown clock on your phone. 61-13-10 Smile )

Whatdoiwanttohear · 27/01/2019 09:53

Oh Surferjet so a no deal not for you then? I thought you were a Hardline Brexiteer?

Ta1kinPeace · 27/01/2019 11:52

surferjet
So, you are happy with the WA
ie staying in the customs union
COOL

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