To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

claw

100%

Op, have you tried Sure Start/ Home Start? sorry I forget the name but the one where a volunteer comes and helps you on your home for a few hours per week.
It seems to me like you could really do with some hands on support and this could really help.
Apologies if it's already mentioned or not available, in which case your HV is a good place to start.

I have read the whole thread, its hard being young, not having the right support and having 3 kids, for that I take my hat off.
But as many have saids there's areas to Change, I'm not going to say them all as many pp have said so already.
I have a few points that come from a personal/professional prospective.
Firstly, having a child taken into care is a last resort, my DS4 is friends with a boy in foster care I know his background it has to get to such a point that there is a serious risk to the child, they will put in all support possible frirst, hence why contacting SS is a good call. The only time they will consider taking your boy into full time, is if your DD gets seriously injured or killed, I'm not saying that will happen but you need to do everything in your power to make sure it dosent to keep your DD safe. If your DD gets heard there needs to be bigger consequences not just 4 minutes on the naught step for example. Something SS might be able to other though is respite care, a weekend a month for example with specialist foster carers. They offer this in my area but you have to go through a lot off channels first its not just a ring up thing and this resource is often stretched. But putting into into protective as a pp has said can you imagine waving him off to ft foster care, not only how would you feel, but imagine the emotional impact if that were to happen, he'd grow up his whole life thinking his only family did not want him, I'm not saying this is what you want but its how it can come across. I was in care myself and work with a lot of looked after children, there lives aren't always easy.
You do need clearer boundaries for all your children, if you give your DS boundaries, say around the dinner table, but nor your DDs, from what you have said he won't understand that he got to do that at the age and so on. He probably just sees it as you let them do what they want, not me so I'm going to push those boundaries. Maybe not, just a theory.
I don't see what an emergency gp appointment will do for your son, SS, HV and nursery are your better bets, with a regular gp appointment to log your concerns. Know please don't take offence to this, I do believe you could benefit from a gp appotment, it might just be because your talking about your Ds's problems, but it does strongly come across that you can't see your DS in a positive light and it of course come across that you are not coping, which is understandable. There are service that support parents who have children who have additional needs etc, they may be able to signpost you or suggest something else, it also opens up a window of support for you and somewhere were you can talk.
Your DS may or may not have a diagnoses, please don't pin your hope that he has x y or z that gives treatment x y z, because even if he gets a diagnoses it won't be a quick fix and there are still areas you can change at home. Although a diagnoses can point into a good route of right support.
I would also suggest talking to nursery about what boundaries and routine they have in place and see what they suggest.
But good luck

Oh, OP, it sounds dreadful

@Claw101
The kids I taught had extreme ASD in some cases. They were in a private specialist school (that was not my only teaching experience) because they had been FAILED by CAMHS.

I think you are out of touch as to how much help there is, given the cut backs.

Not all children with ASD need an OT - there is a spectrum as in the term. Many are in mainstream school and teachers doing what they can, but many do not have any special training for it.

The kids I taught had extreme ASD in some cases. They were in a private specialist school (that was not my only teaching experience) because they had been FAILED by CAMHS.

I not sure what this means! They were in private SS because they were failed by CAMHS? I’m not seeing the connection? children attend SS as a) they have an EHCP and b) this is where their needs can be best met.

SALT, OT, CAMHS etc assessments are part of the diagnostic process, obviously depending on concerns. It’s very common for children with ASD to have sensory difficulties, to varying degrees. Yes, not every child with ASD will require OT input. However, the only way to identify this is with OT assessment, if it is suspected they might have!

They make recommendations regardless of which type of school the child attends.

Claw
I have a son and a daughter with ASD. Once they got a diagnosis the 'support' (and i use the term extremely loosely here) disappeared immediately. And I mean immediately. Getting a diagnosis does not mean there's loads of support and help. It means having a solid foundation for you to stand while you fight every day for your children.
OP. You sound overwhelmed and exhausted. Your partner is crying because he doesn't know what to do and he isn't the one that provides the majority of care for the children.
You have my sympathy.
I think the situation is that a lot of changes have happened in a very short space of time and nobody has had time to adjust before the next thing happens. You and your son.

OP, I’m not sure if you’re going to come back to this thread and read this but I just wanted to add that I really really feel for you and I hope that you can access lots of support for you, not only so that you can continue to be a great mum but because you need and deserve it as a person in your own right. I wish you so much more happiness than you have at the moment. X

Thefrench I have a child with ASD too. I’m not suggesting they hand out support like smarties!

I’ve had to fight for support, like most parents. However, the diagnosis assessment identified what his difficulties were and where I needed to and which support I needed to fight for. Another aspect was school could no longer blame me!

A diagnosis is a gateway to support, if you like.

OP I think you need a GP appointment for you, your health doesn't sound like it is in a great place.
As pps have said social services are not going to take your dc into foster care, it just isn't going to happen. A key reason for this is the hugely damaging impact it would have on him.
With luck there will be lower level parenting support for you, although funding cuts have really impacted this.
There are books and even utube videos that you could read. You and your DP need to have a good look round at the different parenting strategies out there. Pick one that seems a reasonable fit for how you want to parent and follow it through. Changes take time, sometimes months.
Make sure your physical and mental health is as good as it can be before leaning into this.

@stressedmum0f3 You can cope. You can't see it right now, but you can do it. Take control.

I'm so sad to read your update that you're only 23 years old @stressedmum0f3 and I don't mean that to be patronising.

It must feel like treading mud and being sucked in every step just now.

You WILL get help. It will get better but authorities need to know how much your struggling BUT will act quicker if the emphasis is put on the children being at risk.

SWD can sometimes arrange for a respite carer /childminder to look after the children and give you a break. I actually think it would be better if the girls went for a bit of care and then your son gets time with you to PLAY with him without him seeing the girls hanging off you.

It's really sad that your own mother has not been there for you and perhaps you have a distorted view of the role of a parent.
I knew when I first posted on your thread that you were wanting your son taken away, that's why I said no one is going to swoop in and take him...they won't. He's your responsibility, like it or not.

He's a little boy with very clear difficulties and that's not his fault. He needs loving care with a consistent approach. He existed before you decided to add another two children into he mix.

Regarding the HV not answering the phone and not ringing you back - that's not acceptable at all. Can you email the practice manager a complaint and detail all attempts to contact her for help. Tell them you feel you're at breaking point and need intervention right now.

The situation as it is at the moment is completely and utterly untenable.

@Claw001 The point is that not all local education authorities provide special needs teaching for children who need it. These children had severe dyslexia, some had ADHD, some were ASD.

Not all parents go through CAMHS. some parents use private psychologists or doctors for assessments.

In my area, an initial appt with CAMHS used to take 6 months. Some families go outside the system.

Some, who had been in the state system, found the care their child needed did not exist.

I think this thread is being hijacked in some ways because it doesn't sound to me- on the face of it- as if this boy has ASD, but it does sound like inconsistent parenting, muddling along, negative behaviour and sheer exhaustion . I have been on the thread for a while today and along with others have suggested ways forward. These should be the first step, rather than seeking a 'label'.

Op this sounds like a very tough situation and I don’t think anybody who hasn’t been there can completely relate.
I used to run a pre-school and am currently on mat leave with my first, so whilst I have the professional experience in behaviour management to know how to manage challenging behaviour and young children with sen I also now understand how different it is being mum and being on call all the time, it must be extremely difficult when faced with such challenging behaviour at home with little support and no oppertunity to take a break which I think is extremely important for you to be in the right frame of mind to deal with things.
Speaking to nursery will definately help and seeing the gp but a few things to try in the mean time I haven’t seen suggested yet (but apologies if they have been because I admit I haven’t read the whole thread) might help seeing as you think he’s mentally young for his age...

1. try visual aids, for example print off some emotion cards and regularly ask him to show you using the cards how he is feeling and then talk about it.
2. I would use time out as ‘reflection time’ or calm down time, rather than a punishment. So maybe sit him on the step but give him something sensory to play with whilst he’s there - something simple like a sensory bottle with glitter and water would work. Then when he is calmer ask him why he needed to reflect and...
3. most young children his age do not understand ‘sorry’ so they’ll say it when told to but it means nothing to them so instead try asking him to give his sister a hug and ask her if she is okay. Explain to him that it wasn’t kind and use the emotion cards to visually support how she feels after he has hurt her. Also use the visual aids to ask him at other times, like when you’re doing an activity together 1:1, how he is feeling. If you find that he is constantly choosing the angry emotion then try teaching him to self help how to deal with it, by counting to 10 and breathing. When you do go to nursery ask about his development tracker and whether he is plotting below his age band in personal, social and emotional development as well as communication and language, maybe have a look yourself at the ‘EYFS development matters’ and see if you think he’s in the right bracket for his age. Big hugs though op, you’ve got this just keep thinking positively, you can do this!

@skinoncustard I read your post and felt so sad. You summed up everything. I would fight tooth and nail for my ds’. I love them them to the moon and back.

I wonder if OP would have the same feelings for her ds, if she didn’t have her dd’s. Would she then be trying everything she could rather than wishing someone would come and take him away?

I said this before and I’m sorry if it’s out of line, but having three under 4 years old, little support from dp as he’s in work (we can’t knock him for that), no support from grandparents on either side, a young mum (I was a young mum at 19), 1 baby who is still being breastfed. Honestly is it at all not surprising that there is a child with no boundaries, routines, who is struggling with speech development but mum doesn’t have the time to work with him, and he doesn’t get to do the things that most children would be doing at home: playing with mum and dad, building Lego etc, making and playing with play dough, helping in the kitchen to make cakes, drawing pictures, colouring in, watching tv shows, dressing up as his favourite charter, reading stories, playing in sand and water and so on.

Is he not doing these things because he’s never been taught how? Because as soon as he was old enough, a new baby came along, and then another......

jingle If it’s recommended by an expert, the school should follow the recommendations. If the school don’t have the funds or expertise to follow them, then they apply to the LA for the funds needed.

There are 2 pathways either CAMHS or Paed for diagnosis. 3 if you include private diagnosis.

Totally agree referrals waiting lists are very long, which is more reason to get the ball rolling, sooner, rather than later.

The OP has already stated her son has a severe speech delay, that alone warrants further assessment.

It sounds to me like he may have some underlying issues. Yes, I agree OP needs to make some changes too, regardless of a diagnosis or not.

A ‘label’ this term pissing me off! My son has a diagnosis, not a ‘label’, he is a person, not a fucking pot of jam!

Tbf it's a possibility for them to take him. I begged my old hv to take him before, and she said if it wasn't for the fact my dp was there to (quite understandably) stop her. Then she would have.
Somebody asked me, how would I feel saying goodbye? Quite sad and shaken.
How would I feel in a year? Not sure, but for a few months at least, the respite would be quite welcome.
It's getting hard to answer every question

It’s respite you need. However, you need to request it, in order for it to be considered.

I agree you need help and respite. The nursery should be able to put in a referral to social services for you to be able access support services, maybe family support and practical help. Having your son taken into care really would be an option you may struggle to come back from. Have you spoken to your DH about how you feel about this? What is his view? You sound at breaking point to be thinking this way

Sorry op, did you say earlier that you'd had a hysterectomy? At 23? Sorry to be personal, but that's a very extreme surgery at a very young age! Can I ask why you had it?

He wouldn't want ds taken away but then he doesn't deal with this day in day out.
Yes I was given a total hysterectomy, I was told when I came around on high dependency it was the only thing they could do to save my life

Someone I know had a teenager, similar story. His mum phoned SS after he attacked her again, quite badly. He had also attacked siblings previously, broken stuff etc.

She insisted SS put him into foster care. They did for a short time. He was assessed quickly and found to have a disorder.

SS then worked with the family to establish what support they needed to have him back home.

Well I've just been speaking to dp, he wants to move out with dd. So this is literally splitting the family apart😓

Well who will care for the DD he takes when he's at work all day? I hardly dare ask, are you married?

Yes I was given a total hysterectomy, I was told when I came around on high dependency it was the only thing they could do to save my life

I also wondered in my first reply on your post if a traumatic birth of one of these siblings could have triggered your son's feelings towards them.

There's so much to unpick here.

Surely if it's coming to your ds getting put into care your dh should be going out on a limb to change his job to late shifts or nights so he can help at home?
Care is not an easy option, children are often passed from pillar to post and that's absolutely the opposite of what your little boy needs.