To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

Cherry baking with my DS would be far too dangerous.

Oh hun, you want him to be taken into care?

Did you grow up in care?

Ok, more questions but you don’t have to answer them here - only for yourself and with whoever helps you in real life because this is massive how you’re feeling right now. I would seek help for your feelings and your situation, think about these questions and talk them through with people you trust.

What are you assuming will happen if he is ‘taken away’? How would you feel saying goodbye to him?

How will you and your partner feel in the long term if that really happens? How will you feel in a year’s time?

You are his mother - what do you think is best for your son? What do you want for him?

Like I say, you don’t have to answer these questions to me. But you sound so sad and hopeless and I really really hope you can get some sleep somehow and think these things through with someone. I was very very ropey when I was suffering sleep deprivation. It’s used as torture for a good reason.

Hugs.

That's just bollocks putthewashing.

I'm my area Senco's can make a referral to community paeds (for primary age and younger) and Camhs (for secondary age) for Neuro developmental assessment. I work in this area and in my experience it is preferable that referral comes from either school/ nursery or another professional who knows the child well (health visitor, early years worker), but not the GP as they usually do not know the child and paeds/camhs will ask school/ nursery for their assess/plan/do information anyway.
OP based on what you have said I think going down the neurodevelopmental route is premature and it would most likely not be accepted (at least it wouldn't in my area) as there has been no evidence of the impact of lower levels of support- family worker, social care, early years worker, speech and language etc. It also sounds like a very difficult (and chaotic) home situation and until those things are worked on then it would be unreasonable to diagnose anything at this stage.

I'm my area Senco's can make a referral to community paeds (for primary age and younger) and Camhs (for secondary age) for Neuro developmental assessment. I work in this area and in my experience it is preferable that referral comes from either school/ nursery or another professional who knows the child well (health visitor, early years worker), but not the GP as they usually do not know the child and paeds/camhs will ask school/ nursery for their assess/plan/do information

Thanks I wasn’t aware of this. I’m not sure I agree the referral is better coming from school. In this case and many others school don’t see the behaviour that parents see and often blame the parents. It’s very common in ASD, for a child to display different behaviours in different settings.

OP.... youve received so many comments, I have no idea if you will see this. But this thread is really upsetting. You sound like a person exhausted, downbeaten, and with no clue what to do next. It must be so so hard.

I feel so sorry for you, for your poor little boy who at best has undiagnosed SEN (which is just dreadful for him to not be understood), or even worse is NT and just acting out becuase he has no clear boundaries.

I feel so sad for your DD who is constantly on the receiving end of DS anger. Its a terrible mess.....

But you know - most things can be made better. I think you seem very focused on doing (going to clubs, going to HV, going to GP) rather than implementing.

Youve had so many suggestions - Im not going to add more but just to say - you do know a diagnosis isnt going to wave a magic wand? Even if he is diagnosed with severe SEN its going to be YOU who still has to deal with him. So really diagnosis, whilst important isnt going to make this situation resolve.

I think you need a serious look at the set up in your life, work life balance / the property you are in / how much DH works... You need to get some help from PPP or social servies to access parenting classes to help this situation.

What sad reading this makes .
Does anyone else feel for this little boy. Trailed from class ,to class ,to nursery , anything to get him out of the home.
No fun, reading, playing with his parents . Told time after time that he’s naughty.
No one in his family seems to like, let alone love him .
His mother would put him in care as the answer to her problems .
I think of my grandchildren who are loved and nurtured by their parents and extended families and just feel so sad for this little one, and wonder what the future holds for him and his sisters.

Just a word of caution re CAMHS, they don't like labelling children too early. DS2 was referred at 5 and they wouldn't give him a diagnosis. He's now 7.

I agree @Claw001 that some children do not display the same behaviours at school as at home and those with ASC are often very good at masking, which is why in this case and many others, the op getting support in the home would be a good first step so that someone can help op unpick behaviours which may as a response to the environment (boundaries, routine, relationships etc) and those which may be more 'within child' (hate that term!) iyswim.
Also if the child behaves differently at school /nursery then good communication between home and school is really important so that parents can learn more about what is working in the school environment (strategies, routines etc) and try and apply where possible the same at home.

I have to echo the Oracle here. The diagnosis is really just a label. It doesn't do much other than to give the problem a name. He will still have all the issues he is currently dealing with just then you will have a reason for them.
Which does help mentally don't get me wrong but you are still going to have to be the one to get him to behave in an acceptable manner.

Try and take a step back and see him for what he is which a little boy and not just as the cause of all this stress for you.

Mummy I totally agree OP definitely needs some support. Wherever the behaviour stems from home environment, ASD or any other diagnosis or a mixture of both, it needs managing.

If a child is masking in school, doesn’t mean that strategies are working in school. Quite the opposite! It means the child is holding it together in school and exploding at home. Not enough support in school, is why child is exploding at home!

Just earlier in the thread OP was advised referral is better coming from school than GP. As OP was debating which appointment to go to next week to ask for referral (school or GP)

I was trying to establish if school can make the referral (which it seems they may not be able, depending on where she lives) I’m also wondering if they would make a referral if they do not see any of the behaviour that OP does.

Ideally, OP should go to both! They have been made for the same day.

My nipples are constantly bleeding
Have you thought about stopping breast feeding? You can only do so much OP. Then you have to do what makes your life tolerable.
I also wonder if you might be depressed (understandable) and if you have told your GP how you feel? Not just focus on your son's behaviour, but on your mental health at your next appointment.
This thread is disturbing because you sound detached now, like an observer to the chaos and disorder, rather than the adult in control.
Parenting classes would give you more adults to speak to - if you can make the class somehow.

There is no such thing as a "label" for a Child, it is a diagnosis.
A diagnosis can lead to correct resources for that child and the correct behavioral management technique's. It may lead to medication for ADHD etc.
I am not suggesting op's so has any SEN, but I wish people would not be so ignorant when it comes to children getting a. Diagnosis.

I was actually quoting the original psychologist's letter: "I do not wish to label him at age 5."

Your nipples shouldn’t be bleeding after seven months of breastfeeding. I have EBF’d all four of mine and the only time I experienced this was when DC1&2 had poor latch during the first fortnight but once I fixed the latch and got some lansinoh nipple cream on there it improved... If you really want to continue with BFing I would suggest contacting la leche or a local breastfeeding support group because it shouldn’t be painful. If you stopped, no one would think anything of it. Totally understandable and it’s fine to stop after six months anyway. May help you if DP can help with night feeds too.

Op from what I've read this really sounds similar to my eldest ds from age 3-5, behaviour started with the arrival of a new sibling.

Interestingly though he didn't attend nursery for the first couple of months and when he did start it was morning nursery only, until he started school at 5, so I did spend a lot of time with him as I was a Sahm.

And from reading what youve written I think upon reflection this saved us as I think he needed time with me! It seems you are caught in a cycle of him craving your attention and displaying this through negative behaviour and you rebuffing it by spending very little time with him!

What I did was live my life around his routine. I needed to take him out a lot for classes and activities as he would become very mischievous at home and violent towards the baby. I had a couple of playpens for the baby if I needed to put him down but would mostly carry the baby around constantly, but subtly, trying to ignore baby and focus on ds. I would also complain about the baby needing things to my ds rather than talk about the baby needing special care, if you know what I mean 'oh no the baby is crying again- so much noise is hurting my ears!' He never responded to the typical advice about involving the child in nappy changing/ bathing as a little helper. He didn't like the baby so didn't want to help! I also breastfed and would just feed baby whenever ds was playing. I would arrange my days to get ds out of the house asap.

At night time I would sit with ds in the dark, listening to music and rubbing his back while breastfeeding baby. He would never be left alone to sleep as he would just become manic so i always stayed with him in pitch black darkness. No bedtime stories either as he would never listen or stay still for them. I could never understand why other parents would suggest this as it would never ever work for him!

Now he is 8 and he is a clever boy. No problems as school. He sometimes gets a mischievous look in his eye but I can reason with him more and can talk him down. Still don't do bedtime stories but we have moved onto audio books in the pitch black darkness, but I still often sit with him, to give him that special attention. I still put him to sleep first even though he is the oldest. I tell him I need to as he falls asleep faster than his siblings and he is the first up -which he loves as he loves putting on the TV first thing in the morning and being the boss of that! He siblings wake later. So that reasoning works for him. Also he falls asleep fast so then I can focus on the others who have a much more typical bedtime story etc routine dc.

But I think the key thing that I did (accidentally!) was giving him time and making him the priority (in his eyes) I don't think his siblings miss out as now he is more reasonable and has developed empathy for them (thank goodness!) they get along fairly well now too!

Not sure how you could turn this around. Maybe put your middle and even baby in nursery and reduce you ds' time there. Maybe make some disparaging comments about the baby sisters left at home with your friend and make him feel important?

philomena
I wasn't really referring to your comment but a pp who said a diagnosis would do nothing only label a child.
Which is incorrect.

A diagnosis does not do that much ime professional experience.

It leads to a greater understanding of why someone may behave as they do, but it won't provide a solution.

There is a lot of controversy over the diagnosis of ADHD (not autism.)
ADHD is a subjective diagnosis, from observation and parental comments.

It is thought by some experts to be over-diagnosed, when the real issue is family dynamics.

Ritalin has side effects and its use is being questioned as many more children are being medicated for what may simply be behavioural issues.

This is my former professional experience, having worked in Sp Needs.

As I understand it, it's a school nursery class, so the OP's DDs would be too young.

Op I feel for you so so much

You've had a LOT of judgy replies here

My son is similar, although not quite as extreme, and luckily I only have him, but I still struggle massively.

Most days are spent wishing for bedtime.

Well I am a parent to two sen children and in my experience a diagnosis has been a life saver as has medication.again I am not talking about op's son but my own experience.

skinoncustard thats exactly how I feel reading this. Dont get me wrong, I feel huge sympathy for the OP as well, but its just so "woods for the trees".

OP try to focus on what might work / what can be good rather than negatives. We re probably all guilty whilst trying to get something sorted of sayin "dont do that" " get down from there" "stop it". But this little one does need you to acknowledge that you love him - you just dont like / struggle with his behaviour. There is a very very important difference, special needs or not.

A diagnosis does not do that much ime professional experience. It leads to a greater understanding of why someone may behave as they do, but it won't provide a solution.

I don’t agree. Part of the diagnosis for ASD for example will be multi agency assessments ie SALT, OT, CAMHS etc. They will make recommendations for school and home. For example it may be that the child has multiple sensory difficulties and needs regular input from an OT. A sensory diet etc, etc or needs regular SALT input and a program in school/home and/or parents and child need regular sessions with CAMHS to learn strategies to manage behaviour.

@Claw001 exactly. A diagnosis helps with understanding, strategies, support in lots of cases.