To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

so does he misbehave with your parents?

That's quite surprising; I'd have thought that when he was alone with 2 adults who could give him their undivided attention, he'd be different.

Does he see them on his own or with your other children?

Could they not take him for an hour or so, in their home, where they can read, do Playdoh or whatever kids do now, and give you a break?

OP you are 23?! I take my hat off to you - you are seeking help and trying to be a good parent. Good luck to you - you will get there in the end.

Honestly I think step away from the internet and go find some real life help at a sure start/ local nursery - ask about parenting classes etc.

You are extremely young and have three little ones - it will get better I promise.

Sorry shouldbhave clarified, It's my mum so his nan and dp dad his granddad. On various occasions he has acted up of what I describe but not to the extreme.
No they won't take him, his grandad has a lot of dogs and is worried of ds getting bit or hurt and my mum's rarely ever around. I've posted many threads about her under a different name about her lack of help.
The occasions I spoke of, were on his own. Neither of them have ever looked after the two girls 😓

Claw, it does depend on your LA as different areas have different systems, which is where things get confusing. In my LA, I refer suspected ADHD to HYM having first completed initial observation in school, gathered evidence from parents and teachers etc. For suspected ASC I refer to the CLASS team at Pupil Support Services. They come and see the child and if they feel it’s appropriate, they then complete a multi-agency assessment.

GPs can also initiate the above processes but my experience is that they tell parents it’s better if schools do it as the agencies want the school input anyway.

I don’t deal directly with paediatricians unless for safeguarding or if a child has additional SEN.

Have you taken him out today op?

Ok look - you feel like you need help. So you’re standing back and filming things your boy is doing rather than getting involved and preventing him. That shows us, and him that you’re not in control.

I guess he’s at nursery right now, so you have a bit of space? Ask yourself - what is it you really want to happen next?

You’re asking for professional help as if they will take the situation away. What is it you want from them?

Their approach will be to help you take control and it may be easier to feel the support from people in real life than here.

But no-one can make it stop or make it go away. You sound miserable and so does your partner and I’m so sorry.

When I was pregnant I went looking for pictures of strong women and stuck them in a book. It kind of stayed with me. In the end, like you I ended up with a birth injury that was so awful and flashbacks and bleeding nipples. But I never lost the basic belief that I was strong. You need to be your own best friend here. We’re only here for a short time, and your children’s lives will be shaped by your actions now. I say that not to frighten you or guilt trip you but to give you a sense of how awesome that is. (I get a bit frightened by it!)

We don’t have the space or the culture to just leave kids to grow up like wildflowers and hope they’ll turn out ok in the company of other kids. We have to be parents and let them learn from us how to speak, how to read, how to behave. School won’t do everything. He’ll struggle if you can’t help him.

I really really feel for you. Please don’t sit on the sidelines feeling defeated. This is hard, really hard, and there’s no medal and no glory, but you reached out here for help for a reason. You can do this. You can be a brilliant mum. But nothing that is worth doing is easy. I don’t know why but I feel the truth of it.

On a side note - a supernanny episode I watched a boy behaved quite like yours - lots about boundaries but do you know one of the big things they found helped? White noise from the film crew’s camera - helped him sleep!! Mine has slept with white noise since he was born.

Take care x

OP what does your DP have to cry about - guilt he doesnt do anything because he doesnt

You need to be proactive about this you need to start the process because you need some help - because you need to get the ball rolling to see if his needs do need to be statemented before he starts school and some parenting straegies

Speak to the nursery, get them on board because you need them

I filmed him so I could show the hv what he is doing, not for just the sake of it.
No he isn't in nursery yet, he says again that he is happy to stay home but I'm gonna have to force him to go cause I need him out.
What is it I want to happen? Ideally for him to be put in care. Which may sound awful to some of you but I just can't cope

Erm no he was crying because he is tired? Dd didn't sleep, just as I had anticipated she wouldn't so now he is just as tired. Which isn't safe as his job involves driving

By the way, I realise what worked for me or them might not work for you. But I guess - I don’t know why - just been really moved by your situation and want to try and help. If you want to PM and just chat, I’m also happy to just ‘listen’ over text message if that would help. Take cate

care!

Hey OP, just finished reading the full thread and also want to offer you hugs. 3 kids at 23 is a lot for anyone. You clearly had your eldest very young and it doesn't sound like any of the children were planned. My eldest wasn't planned either and it was a hell of a life adjustment - to have 2 more in quick succession, I think it'd be a miracle if you weren't struggling! On top of that you obviously have ongoing health issues, your partner works extreme hours, I have to assume that you have financial problems (based on the fact that you haven't simply gone out and bought more dining room chairs/ replaced the highchair when it broke). And it's clear that you son at the very least has language or learning delays, even if no other additional needs are present. Who wouldn't be overwhelmed in that situation? You've already taken a lot of action based on this thread. My only input is to suggest ways of getting books back in your house. If your son has the mental age of a younger child, then maybe consider pitching things like reading/ playing a that level. Buy him board books so he can't rip them, or plastic bath books with just a few words. Buy him books that would appeal to a 2 year old, with bright pictures and simple stories. You can get most board books second hand on amazon for less than a quid if you don't mind the condition. My son rips books too so I buy them cheap and second hand and then it doesn't matter so much. Definitely look into parenting classes. I think you can do them online. I've not been where you are but my job used to be to support children with emotional/ behavioural problems in school and that was bloody hard, even when it was only 9-3, mon-fri! You're young, you've got a lot of odds staked against you, and you're clearly in crisis. So keep reaching out to any agency that you can think of until you get help. The "throw it all at the wall and see what sticks" approach isn't working, nor is the "we've never done it that way so we can't start now"/ "we tried that already and it didn't work" attitude. You need a plan, a plan that you follow to the letter no matter how hard it is, and I think that plan needs to be drawn up by professionals.

OP, they will not put your son in care. Really, they want. There is such a massive shortage of foster carers that they can’t remove all the children who should be in care as s result of neglect - there’s no chance of them removing a child because you feel you can’t cope with him.

And you don’t want that. Not really. You don’t want your son growing up knowing you didn’t want him. That you’re saying it is a sign you’re not thinking rationally.

I think you need a GP appointment for you, not for your son. You’ve had lots of health problems and you sound depressed. Make an urgent appointment to talk about all of this.

And keep hounding the HV for an Early Help assessment. You need support to parent more effectively. Reading things online is one thing but you need someone to help tell you what to do. No one can do it for you but you do need help to do it.

OP apologies - my DD was able to process those kinds of questions at that age and with some additional knowledge she could talk quite coherently about her emotions and feelings. That isn't the case here so that approach may not be useful at this time.

I don't think his train of thought sounds that disjointed though. You said well done for walking near the pram, he said Daddy doesn't do that, you said no - but you do and your doing it well (brilliant reply!). He asks if Grandad is a big boy. You could then just say Grandad is an adult...and see where it goes from there.

His verbal skills will improve as you talk more to him. Don't worry if what he says doesn't seem connected to you. To me it seems he is thinking about what 'big boy' means, whether his role models fall into that category and maybe, wondering what is in it for him to attempt to emulate big boy behaviour.

He is maybe wondering why being a 'big boy' is something you are happy with him about...and exploring the concept.

Just let him talk..and respond as plainly as you can. Let him guide the conversation, find out what he wants to talk about.

Would he be interested in playing a game of 'how long can you keep DD1 safe and happy?' Give him the responsibility of making her laugh, or helping her with something? (obviously watching like a hawk to prevent injury).

I'm just wondering if the message can be changed from 'because you are bigger and stronger than her you shouldn't hurt her' to 'because you are bigger and stronger you can help keep her safe (like a superhero, if he's into that), help her to learn'.

Its emphasizing all he has that she doesn't yet. Emphasizing that his has abilities she doesn;t, and giving him responsibility for how he uses his power.

hungrypuffin yes it can be confusing! SENCO’s cannot refer directly to paed or CAMHS for ASD assessments, they can refer to other agencies who can refer?

I’ve been following this thread but haven’t commented as I don’t have anything constructive to add. It’s very sad reading tbh. I hope it works out for you OP. I don’t know how easily they place children in care in the UK (as this is what you’ve indicated you want). Sounds like he’s going to be a messed up kid one way or the other really. Tragic.

I can refer directly to CAMHS (HYM) but in my area that’s not the process for autism, it’s a different team. It could be that way in another LA though. It is a nightmare that every area has a different system and there’s no consistency (also means changing jobs as a SENCO to a different area is really hard as you have to re-learn everything from scratch!)

OP if you contact SS urgently, by phone to follow up your email. They should do a carers assessment. Which should involve what you need as a family to cope better, maybe including some respite or direct payments so you can employ someone to help.

Can DP do story time as soon as he gets in from work? That gives DS some one to one time, some language interaction and you the chance to sort the girls out.
Yes, DP is probably tired from working all day, but he can eat/relax as soon as story/cuddles is done. Just make it part of the daily routine. No excuses from him, he needs to do his bit in the short space of time he has.

Yes you need to contact SS not because though they will take him - because they wont.

It will help with starting the diagnosis process (which you urgently need) and give you help support and guidance

But one thing you can do and do now is change your mindset - YOU are in charge not him.

I hope you get some help and support soon, OP

Yes in my LA you need a referral to CDC (child development centre) they have a specialist Paed, SALT etc. Referral can come from any Health Care professional ie HV, GP, SALT etc (but not education professionals ie school)

In my old LA, it was CAMHS who diagnosed. I thought referral was as above for assessments.

Interesting you are a educational professional and can refer directly to CAMHS. I have been misinformed!

I stress it does depend on the LA though - wouldn’t surprise me at all if sencos in other areas couldn’t go directly to CAMHS. I can also refer directly to them if a child is having MH problems too.

OP, i wrote a pretty strongly worded post earlier, and i stand by the fact that your number 1 priority has to be to separate your son from your daughters to stop them getting hurt.

It makes more sense to hear how young you are. I think you're out of your depth, which most of us would be, even at an older age. Do everything you can with every agency you can to get professional support. Open your mind to the suggestions of other posters. Can nan and grandad not take one of your daughters each to help you all get a good night's sleep? You mention a friend looks after your kids while you take your son to nursery. Perhaps she would take them overnight just for a break? You sound depressed, and rightly so. But please get between your son and your daughters at all costs to begin with.

I was aware of referral from school for MH problems, just not direct diagnosis referrals for ASD.

As far as I’m aware there are only 2 paths for ASD diagnosis either CAMHS or Paed for all LA’s.

I’m a bit confused in your LA SENCO referring directly to CAMHS (for ASD diagnosis assessments) is not the process? Is the process for you to refer on to other agencies, who can then refer?

I think we are saying the same thing in a different way