To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

I've tried removing toys but then my dd gets bored?
I know I'd have the time if we didn't go to classes but I feel like he really needs them, it's all well and good saying play with him but there isn't a time when I can! My friend looks after the girls while I take him to these places and I feel as his mum the classes benefit him a whole lot more than staying in.
Plus there isn't many toys in his room that aren't now broken.
I got books from the library and they too got broken, no matter me saying "oh honey let's not do that, that's not nice" it doesn't work. He just snatches it off me. Or on the off chance I get it out of his room in good condition, he will end up finding it and ripping it to bits.
I sound like I'm making excuses, but I'm just saying these things will not work for us.

ADHD? DS2's just been assessed and the psychologist's pretty certain that's what it is. I find no raised voices, no reaction to anything naughty, just remove whoever his current victim is and make a big fuss of them, seems to work. Also, does he sleep okay?

You are making excuses.

Sorry.

You are using classes as an excuse too. Can't you see your child needs an adult to play with him rather than mindless soft play?

Be honest. You take him to a class as it gets him off your hands and is in a controlled environment.

A 4 yr old cannot take a book off you and rip it up if you don't want that to happen.

You can also put it high up in a cupboard where he can't find them.

I'm sorry but you are asking for help but not actually accepting it here.

Good luck with it all.

Logical consequence: he can't go for walks with you except essential ones. He can't go to burger king. DS2 comes to the Sainsbury's café with us for breakfast on Saturdays, then straight home as idiots stole all the disabled child trolleys and I can't let him walk round.

I've read through this whole thread OP and it does sound like you're really having a rough ride.

A few things stood out to me in what you've posted:

1. His explanation of why he opened the door and ran off. Whilst not overly logical, he has used sensory language there, about louder and cold. What happened immediately before he did it? Had there been a lot of noise? Baby crying? He might have been feeling overwhelmed by something. My DS would engage in very sensory behaviours when overwhelmed - flooding the bathroom (at home and school), chewing on anything he could get his hands on etc.

1. I kniw you said he's energetic but he could be tired. Some kids get incredibly wired when they are over tired. My DS does act "weird" when he gets too tired. If I don't get him to bed BEFORE he starts showing tired signs he is easy to handle. If he's already showing tired signs then it's too late and I find it hard to get him to stop getting distracted, mucking about and so on. It then takes him even longer to get ready, wind down and fall asleep. He's 12, so needs an element of independence, but I have to hover somewhere nearby to keep him on task. Even on medication, DS finds it almost impossible to sleep and he's tired every morning even though I'm strict about bedtime routine.

1. That said, he needs to go to bed after his younger sister, even though it may be tougher for you. He is older and needs that privilege, or else they go to bed at the same time. In his eyes, him being sent to bed before DD may well feel like another punishment or example of how she is more favoured than him.

1. As difficult as he sounds, so much of what you've said reads like he is constantly being shut out. Shutting yourself in the kitchen with the DDs, put on the naughty step, going to bed before DD1 etc. I'm not sure PPs suggestions for you and DP to each take a DD at night is the right one - DS is still left out that way (at least in his own eyes). I'd be more inclined to suggest a "family bed" arrangement on a temporary basis - mattresses on the floor all pushed together (apart from DD2 if you prefer her in a cot) and you sleep as a family. DS then isn't left out, but you/DP can intervene if DS plays up. This could give him some security that he is still part of the family, which I wonder if he is questioning.

1. Finally, boundaries really do work. I had a lot of battles with my DS at similar age, though his behaviour was not as bad and I don't have other children to deal with. I was being too relaxed and lenient with him because I was tired and was going through the process of having a transplant whilst a lone parent. Once I put stronger boundaries in place he became much easier to handle. Some things took many many weeks, even months-years to fully work, but they worked. You don't need to be friends with your children, or liked all the time. You need to be Mum and most of all, respected. DS is not respecting you or DD at all. Yes he is only 4.5, but at this age it should be expected that even if he doesn't understand the concept of respect, he should be starting to show understanding that other people have their own feelings. However, if as you suggest he has developmental delays that make him more on the same level as DD1 then he may not have this understanding (known as theory of mind) just yet. But you won't be able to know that until he is assessed and diagnosed.

I think it's important not to write him off as badly behaved. School did that to my DS in Yr1 and even now, 6 years on he still talks about "When I was a naughty kid" despite much reassurance he was never naughty, just struggling to cope. Mud sticks, even to the child themselves. If he internalises this he may see no point in ever behaving, which for a while is what DS did because he lacked self belief.

Final thought that's just occurred to me - he might be feeling the need for a stronger male role model, one that's more present. His comments re Dad and Grandad being "big boys" sounds like he's trying to relate to them, even if it wasn't the conversation you wanted to have, he is trying to make sense of the world. I would have said that big boys grow into men like Dad and Grandad and they can walk next to the pram as they can do it nicely, just like you can DS. Subtly building him up by telling him what he can be capable of, if he chooses.

Sorry for length!

Yes ok, I enjoy taking him to classes because for one of the classes I get to think for myself, I get to breathe fresh air, I get to actually think about shopping I need. I get to go and cry in peace, is that so terribly wrong?
I cannot give him anything at the moment, I'm exhausted, My nipples are constantly bleeding, my two girls don't sleep, I'm knackered mentally, and I'm still trying to recover from an infection in my scar. Fuck it was only last month I needed a blood transfusion because I keep loosing masses amounts of blood.
Yes I know it was my choice to have kids, but I didn't realise how isolated it would be.
The only adult I speak to is my partner at 23 years of life is that not frankly depressing?
I'm not trying to label my son, I'm aware a diagnosis will not change his behaviour but it means we could get more strategies in place. How to disiplince a child with a diagnosis as supposed to trying multiple new things at once.
I feel I'm at rock bottom and yes it's very hard to see a light, frankly if there was a light I'd like it to be on the end of a train that's coming toward me as I've had enough of life.
I've tried to contact the relevant people, enquiring about upping nursery hours and will look at a parenting course today, I'm not gonna sit here and bs you all by saying yeah I'll use a highchair or yeah I'll read books. I know those won't work for my family so I'm not gonna insult you all by pretending I tried it.

I'm going through Similar with my son (7) he's being assessed for adhd, I've had to attend 'parenting classes' and basically they said to reward the positive behaviour, which can be very difficult when there is none, but even if he's just sat watching tv for a couple of minutes reward him, do a sticker chart, if he can grab the babies clothes or a nappy and wipes, or eat his meal nicely, then reward him, and when his sticker charts full then have a movie night or go out to the park or something. If you can see he's going to have a melt down then distract him, balloon tennis works well in my house if he won't join in straight away then play by your self and he will soon want to play. I know it's hard I've been struggling since my son was a baby and he can be bloody horrible to my daughter (3) but you can do it! Stay strong!

1. That said, he needs to go to bed after his younger sister, even though it may be tougher for you. He is older and needs that privilege, or else they go to bed at the same time. In his eyes, him being sent to bed before DD may well feel like another punishment or example of how she is more favoured than him.

No no no, thanks but I've tried this. If I put her to bed first, then him he will go in and do whatever it takes to wake her up. Be it playing with the curtains, slamming the door, hitting her. Or at the same time is just a disaster as he will do the above but stop her going to bed (I filmed this on my phone) she wanted to get into her bed so he dragged her out of it and put all the toys there so she couldn't get in. It's not fair I'm aware, as by the time he goes to bed my youngest dd will already be in bed but then we are still stick with dd leaving us no time for each other. More often than not she's asleep on the couch but I cannot put them in together

And make sure there's choices and consequences, and be clear, so for example, 'DS, you have a choice, you can either continue to hit your sister and lose your tv time, or you can chose to stop hurting her and we can pick a nice film to watch as a family, It's your choice' this is what we was tried to do by camhs, it's hard and it doesn't always work for my son, but sometimes it does make him stop and think then he makes the right choice

Let him scream, throw himself to the pavement etc, but don't let him walk next to the pram. Completely ignore the screaming etc. Yesterday we walked home from school with DS2 kicking his shoes off all the way home, I completely ignored it.

That said, he needs to go to bed after his younger sister. No no no, thanks but I've tried this. If I put her to bed first, then him he will go in and do whatever it takes to wake her up

I thought you had already established on this thread that your ds and dd would no longer be sharing a room? Why is this still not possible?

Where do you live OP?

Whilst there may be issues that your son has as a result of various things, I can see you are completely overwhelmed at the moment. You are a stronger woman than me, I would have crumbled dealing with this. I found it difficult enough having 2 under 2 let alone with a little tornado thrown in. Also you're amazing for keeping up with the breastfeeding. I suffered with bleeding nipples with my first baby to the point where he was being sick because of the blood, it was painful and so upsetting.

Honestly I don't really have any real advice, personally I think you need support at home to be able to tackle these things but where you can get that, I do not know. Could hubby take a sabbatical, or unpaid leave mixed with holiday, could you afford that. I don't expect answers to these, maybe just things to muse on as you certainly need help at home for the sake of your children and your own sanity.

I also feel you are getting a rough ride here. I agree with some of the things said, and yes he needs this and he needs that - I'm sure you know that, but I also understand you cannot pour from an empty cup. It sounds like your cup is truly empty and there is no more of yourself to give. That must make it feel harder because you know some of things he needs but you are just not able to give it in your current situation. I would bet on it that you feel like it's a case of just making it through every day without breaking down.

I wish I could give you some magic advice to help. But I can't. I can offer you a non judgemental ear though, please message me if you need to.

anotherday maybe he isn't at school because he was born in September, so starts next year?

Yes claw I have separated dd and ds, dd "slept" downstairs. For all of an hour 😓

OP, I’m going to say something quite unpopular.

You have a parenting problem when it comes to boundaries and presence. Plain and simple.

I’m reading your posts and I am astounded at the lack of insight in them. I am astounded that you can’t understand why your son says the things he does. And, to me, what he is saying makes consistent sense, even if he phrases things differently.

Sibling rivalry can be murderous. We don’t like or want to think of kids as feeling these kinds of intense feelings, but they do. What we need to do in return as parents is to be present and consistent. Your son is telling you that his father is not there. That you are not there, too, inasmuchas you are not giving him and his sister boundaries. Imagine how jealous you might feel towards a younger sibling, who is allowed to get away with things that you cannot. Imagine not having the language either a) to say this, or, b) to make you understand, or c) to express despair that your father is never there.

I’m taking the gloves off with this post. I know it’s not fair and you are overwhelmed. So is your son! But you are the grown-up and you will have to find a way to do this, as impossible as it seems. Your son’s future mental health is dependent on it, and I say that with full cognizance of what that means, and I take full responsibility for it.

Do you think there is something wrong with him, that’s more then naughty behaviour? A Mother’s instinct is usually right.
In the meantime however hard you must try and remain positive, you no doubt love him to bits but don’t actually like him because of his behaviours. He will pick up on this.
Can you set up the day ahead in some way, in steps,,ask him if he’s good by such a time, we can do this together. A reward chart. It really is about rewarding all the positives, it is so important you can adopt some strategies and get a better relationship and bonding with him.

It's hard to suggest areas of help - as so often things differ in different areas.

Last place we lived the Sure Start children centres did speech and language sessions - with crèches for younger children - they did a lot of baby sign language - but area before that had nothing like it in their children centres.

Some of your expectations do seem off – mine are all summer born children so at school at 4 and half but they would have been by my side in food queue in a public place regardless. Though I was still peeing with an audience when older two were that age – mainly as I’d had two Velcro babies and three very young children and that was my normal. I’m wondering if is because as the oldest seems so much older than other two – we found that we sometimes expected too much of our pfb – or your exhausted or perhaps even suffering with pnd – might be worth trying to see the GP or talk to HV for yourself as well as your DS.

I found taking mine out meant I could focus on playing with them not get stressed about state of house so don't get why people think that's odd.

Though in afternoons/evenings they watched more TV than I ideally wanted – numberjacks and alpha blocks – as I was exhausted I had three young children and an undiagnosed underlying health condition that was causing lots of infections.

If you haven't already I’d also try making notes of possible triggers – my eldest reacted to orange food colourings – squashes and certain versions of fish fingers – she’s bounce of the walls people insisted couldn’t be that so having a log helped – she grew out of it.

DS needed constant warnings/information about events that were coming in near future – after this we are putting shoes on – then coat before doing it – his year 1 teacher found he did better that year with a brief summary at end of day about what was happening next day by year 2 this wasn’t needed as much. Though I find we still do this at home to a certain extent - often getting them to repeat back what been said as well.

Often people don't understand that something that worked for their own child may not work for everyone, and don't listen when you explain that you've tried.

^^ This is very true ( and may apply to everything I've said here as well)

Thank you @Claw001, that was what I was basing my suggestion on.

He needs constant supervision OP, you can't let him go and do stuff to DD1. Sorry if that means you and DP don't get so much time together, but it's an unfortunate side effect of having kids. I get that you've also had health concerns, but then that comes back to DP needing to be more supportive of you - you've still not answered anyone's questions about how involved he is when he gets home?

It's rough and you do have a lot on your plate. So go easy on yourself. Parenting classes should help and I agree an assessment will give you a starting point. Fwiw none of mine sat in high chair. I did get them to sit at table but let them off as soon as they were finished or felt finished. I have done the soft play area etc as like you I needed a break. Classes too. I understand. I get the book ripping too we had it for a while.

Quick suggestion go to play area bring pen and paper. Go through thread pick a few strategies you feel apply to your son and write them down. Draw out a routine. Look at routine and see where you can fit in time with your little boy. Stick to it for a few weeks. Change anything that needs changing after the few weeks. In the meantime read up parenting books for extreme behaviour. Avoid normal parenting books they don't apply here. Look after yourself. Think of yourself as captain of ship if you can't function ship goes down.it will get better. I too have had feelings of not wanting to get up anymore but an old friend shook me out of it and told me to change my mindset. I always liked a challenge and now I have it and I'm chipping away and slowly getting results.

I should imagine having to sleep in a new room is quite an upheaval for a 2 year old. It will probably take a bit for her get used to it.

You have taken steps to get help ie contacted SS, nursery referral etc. I do know that one of the first things SS will be concerned about is safeguarding, so separating ds and dd is totally the right thing, even though it might not feel like it now

I think it’s fine for you to be taking him to classes. I’m not sure why that’s an issue for some posters. My dc have adhd and when they were young it was always better to be out doing something than in the house.

I do agree with pps who have pointed out that a diagnosis will change nothing at home. It will still be you dealing with the behaviours day in day out. I find there is very little support for adhd but definitely more provision for asd. What does help with a diagnosis is understanding and a move towards acceptance.

He isn't really involved, he won't get home until 6.30-6.45. By then ds is in his room for bed.
I do all the care for youngest dd.
With regards to the burger king incident, I left him sitting at a table, his friend from nursery was there. It wasn't until I was walking to the table I saw him at the doors with the crying kid.
Of course I expect him to be by my side but he won't listen to that.
Speaking to dp on the phone, he admitted he cried 3 times last night as he is finding things very hard

Sounds like he is jealous.
Can you get someone to look after the baby and do some love bombing time with him on a regular basis?

Your DP needs to be there more. Plain and simple. You both have to make this possible, or you're all going to be bearing the consequences - not least your son.

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sarah-ockwellsmith/love-bomb-your-childb16392460.html