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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what's wrong with my son

999 replies

stressedmum0f3 · 21/01/2019 06:45

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

  • he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
  • shut her hand in doors
  • make her spit on stuff
  • 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)
And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off Sad I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?
OP posts:
Itstimeslikethese · 22/01/2019 08:50

I'm shocked how can it be said she doesn't love her son

MarthasGinYard · 22/01/2019 08:52

Read to him perhaps

He's never has bedtime stories?

JinglingHellsBells · 22/01/2019 08:52

I didn't say she didn't love her son.

I said she was coming across as IF she didn't love him which is a whole lot different.

I said her behaviour towards HIM might give that impression.

Itstimeslikethese · 22/01/2019 08:52

Does your son like play doh? He can rip that up as much as he likes & get his frustration out x

Itstimeslikethese · 22/01/2019 08:53

Still not helps saying that

MyFriendGoo5 · 22/01/2019 08:56

Parenting courses are well worth doing. I honestly gained a lot from them and still sign up now my 2 are teens.

Sometimes we just need a different way of doing things.

Noideaatall · 22/01/2019 09:05

It infuriates me to read people's advice sometimes. I have one child - one - who is like this. The others are not. He's been brought up in exactly the same way as them. So how can it be my own terrible parenting? It isn't you - you are doing your best, as we all are. For some children normal behaviour techniques just don't work. Often people don't understand that something that worked for their own child may not work for everyone, and don't listen when you explain that you've tried. They assume you don't understand, or haven't tried properly. With my own child, I thought spending more time with him one to one, and being more attentive, was working. It wasn't - he'd just started stealing instead. (He's older now)
It isn't you.

metronome1 · 22/01/2019 09:06

Op I really feel for you. It sounds exhausting. It does sound like he has a communication delay. His replies sound very much like my friends son, who is the same age and has a communication delay. He is very active and can be difficult. He doesn't understand the children at school so will run around and play fight a bit too rough to try fit in.
I would push and push for a speech and language referral. Don't be fobbed off. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
The thing is and this is the hard part. I know as I have been there. You will get the diagnosis and nothing will change. You will just have a name for it. You will still be dealing with the same behaviour and still be exhausted. Nothing magically changes when you hear those words. You will get help and strategies from professionals but it's you who will have to implement them. It's you that will have to put the hard work in. It's you who will have to be firm. No one is going to come in to your home and wave a magic wand. I know how that feels. My advice and you have had loads I know is to hit the ground running with this. Start now. I can see you are trying these suggestions. Go back to basics and put firm boundaries and routines in place. Decided on a behaviour strategy and stick to it. At least by the time you get the referral you will have already started what they will tell you to do and will hopefully be seeing some improvements. Google tactics.
If you want you can pm me and I will try help further based on your location. I might not be able to help directly put il try point you in some direction.

Teachdeanta · 22/01/2019 09:12

OP I have to agree with previous poster your money would be better spent attending a parenting class and ditching classes for your son to attend. You have been given loads of advice here. For whatever reason you appear to be stuck and can't move forward and implement changes. Not judging I know it's hard.

I have three children all born within five years. My second guy has very challenging behaviour so I know what it is like. Things change when you change your mind set. Your child may seem naughty but he is not he is a child. Children's behaviour can be a result of a special need, strong personality or other factors. You cannot change special needs or personality so you need to adapt the environment. Behaviour will change with a change in environment.

You absolutely must provide routine and structure. Most children thrive with routine. Difficult children more so.

Children with additional needs eg your son's speech need more input. Read to him, every night. Gives him one on one, which he needs and helps him with speech. If he rips up book, get another one. Let him pick a book, get hardback books. No excuses you just persist. Your husband can mind the other two.

Play with him. Play teaches kids about world how to behave etc. If you are playing with him your other two can also have a break from him. When he is in from nursery make a fuss of him. We used to sit up at table have a snack and a chat.

Ditch classes, small kids don't need classes they need parental contact more. Classes are a nice add on when everything else is in place.

Maybe try attending to his needs first when you can. If he is attended to in morning the others will not be attacked etc. So bring him and DD down put DD to side and bring him to table and feed him. While he is occupied attend to your DD.

I wouldn't go near super nanny as I found her techniques made things worse for my kids. You can choose to listen or not but I have experience with three very challenging children. One diagnosed with high functioning autism and other two awaiting diagnosis of PDA or autism and I have a better handle on things. Life is still stressful but my kids are more enjoyable to be around and for the most part home life is not too bad. Things will not change in a few, days, weeks this is a long process as others have said. Consistency is key. Pick a few things to concentrate on and focus all your energy on these things. Think of routine as the skeleton that the other things will work off. A diagnosis may be helpful but it will not change your son only you can.

Teachdeanta · 22/01/2019 09:19

Also just to add some of us do get landed with difficult children. Normal parenting will not work for them. It is hard and disheartening when things don't work. Just remember he is still your baby and things can get better. Children do well when they can. I said before to check out the book 'the explosive child' by Ross Greene. It deals with parenting extremely challenging behaviour and psychologists recommended it to me. I found it helpful. You can effect change just remember it takes time and an unholy amount of patience.

PinaColada1 · 22/01/2019 09:21

Absolutely agree with this. Some kids need a very high level of us parenting or teaching them - how is he in school?

You cannot change special needs or personality so you need to adapt the environment. Behaviour will change with a change in environment.

SoupDragon · 22/01/2019 09:23

I have one child - one - who is like this. The others are not. He's been brought up in exactly the same way as them. So how can it be my own terrible parenting?

It sounds like your scenario is completely different to the OP's situation.

StoppinBy · 22/01/2019 09:28

@scatcat01 you may find long detailed posts exhausting and unhelpful, other people do not, personally I have trawled through hundreds if not thousands of articles and blogs over the years at different stages of my children's lives, the more detailed the better.

Maybe something that someone here has offered will ring a bell for the OP and actually make sense to her, it is easy to say 'I have tried everything' when you are exhausted but there's a good possibility that there are things she doesn't even know about.

Mummylife2018 · 22/01/2019 09:47

Christ. Has he witnessed violence or something?

danni0509 · 22/01/2019 09:47

When you do implement new strategies don't think they will work overnight or in a week!

This puts people off when they don't see immediate behavioural changes.

Stick at what ever you choose & you may need to change that strategy again and again until you finally find something that actually works

Thanks
grasspigeons · 22/01/2019 09:51

The courses give you confidence too. When behaviour support visited my home i was able to be confident what best practice was, which bits had helped and what did not work and showed my notes and how id used them.. I was able to show how reward charts were a failure for instance. This really helped behavior support move on from blame the parent to poor child with undupported SEN veey quickly. The best tip i got for my child was using visuals and timers from a parent on the course! Both of those tips sound good for a child with language problems.
Im so impressed with how op is taking this all on the chin. I have so much hope for the family.

stressedmum0f3 · 22/01/2019 09:56

The classes are free, so I'm not losing anything by taking him to them.
I'd rather him be out the house, I wouldn't really get much chance to play with him indoors tbh, it sounds sad but that's the hard reality

OP posts:
stressedmum0f3 · 22/01/2019 10:00

No he doesn't have bed time stories as he just rips the books, I got fed up spending money on stuff that just gets ripped

OP posts:
oatmilk4breakfast · 22/01/2019 10:01

I've read the whole thread now and have been keeping with your posts.

Good luck with all the referrals etc, but I think you can see yourself that it may not be SN but the relationships with you, and with his sisters that is the issue here.

When you're stressed out and exhausted it's hard to be doggedly consistent but that's what he probably needs. Kids need to know what they can expect from you, and in this case it seems that needs to be that they are all equally loved, and will all be equally treated.

When he drops the jigsaw, check first that your baby is ok and put her in a safe place. Then go straight back to him. His speech is not great and maybe his understanding is not either, but he will understand a very sad face. Be calm and speak slowly. "That was a wrong thing to do. I love you very much. I love your sister exactly the same. I cannot let you hurt your sister. It makes her sad. It makes me sad. You must not do that again. Let's be gentle with xxx and play xxx" If he gets cross or sad or screams, that's fine, it's only an emotion - he can't handle his emotions yet so he needs to learn from you and he needs to see that you CAN handle his emotions, so he doesn't need to be scared. You might like you're repeating yourself 7,8,9 times - it doesn't matter. Sometimes it takes a week of me saying 'we do it like this, not like this...' or whatever, before it sinks in.

The big thing I think is that you need to make him feel that you love him every single day not only when his sisters are absent but when they are there. As his speech gets better, if he hurts them you can ask him to say sorry. So when they are all together say 'I love you all exactly the same way'. Do you know that book - 'You're all my favourites' - if you can hold of a copy from the library try that...

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00APV169S/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21

When we moved flat (we're in a 2 bed as well) I read my 4 year old son a book every night about a little tiger who moved house - for about 2 weeks before we moved and two months after...the message really sunk in...that home is where your family is, not where your house is. What needs to sink in for your son is that you love him ALL the time, on his own and with his sisters, and that everyone will feel the love better if you are all gentle with each other. (If he grabs the book don't let him. 'No. We don't grab books. Mummy is holding it. But if you can hold it gently, we can hold it together.' If he kicks off 'You're feeling cross, that's ok, we'll read the story later.'

I found it SO helpful to help my son NAME his emotions. 'You're feeling very angry right now....What is making you angry? If he can't talk, sometimes I say, 'Shall we open the door and swoosh the angry away....' (I know this sounds bonkers but that worked when we had some quite bad tantrums).

I say all this knowing that it is almost impossibly hard to be as calm and loving as you need when you're so tired! But I've noticed the difference since I gave my son the ability to know that I'm cross or sad with something he has done (his behaviour) rather than that my feelings towards him as a person have changed.

One idea: this sounds a bit mad, but sometimes in the heat of the moment when your emotions are raised and you're panicking the only thing you can access are things that you're rehearsed or practised.

Try saying them at night when you're on your own or when he's at nursery. Practice in your head gathering them together, and saying a firm but calm 'No, I can't and won't let you hurt your sister/s. Let's do xxx instead together...I love all my babies (include him in that) so so much.' If he objects to being called a baby, great 'ok, I love my babies and my big boy so so much...and you're going to be such a lovely big brother...'

Honestly I know it sounds mad to practice it but when you're exhausted and angry and upset it's hard to remember anything except the things that you've drummed into yourself.

You also might need to get some headspace / sleep and prioritise doing something nice for yourself with a friend or something to remind yourself that you're a strong mum and his behaviour is not beyond your ability to cope.

(The more he sees you unable to cope the more out of control he will feel and the more he will act out).

You've had a bit of stick from people who say you've just come on to moan. I don't see that. I think there are things you need to say, to yourself, to someone else, so that you're not saying them to your son, and you can sort out what you're thinking and feeling. I think you're brave for sticking with the thread to be honest. Once you've acknowledged your feelings you can just let them go. Same with your son. You can't tell him what to feel, he feels what he feels, same as you, but you can both start to change behaviours, and the environment.

This book is also really good for showing how children start to live 'down' to expectations but can also live 'up' to expectations if adults start from the point of view that there are no bad kids....only kids who do good and bad things...

'Edwardo - the horriblest boy in the whole wide world'

www.amazon.co.uk/Edwardo-Horriblest-Whole-Wide-World-ebook/dp/B0060MGHWM/ref=sr_1_6?s=digital-text&keywords=john+burningham&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1548151052&sr=1-6

If you read that with him (it's in our local library). Ask him how he feels about Edwardo, and the grownups in it then tell him he is a kind boy, and can be a lovely brother - remember when you helped xxx, remember when you got cross but then you said sorry...remember when you walked so nicely by the pram?

That sort of stuff works but you need to 'fill up their little buckets' with it every day xxxx

Good luck!!

oatmilk4breakfast · 22/01/2019 10:04

I've recommended a couple of books. I get what you're saying about them getting ripped. Books are so important for kids though. They can access emotions and learn about their feelings and your feelings through them. Get them from the library, bring them out only when you need them, you hold them, set a boundary around it, we're going to be very gentle with this book - it's from the library and we need to take it back - and then you hold and read it and take it into your room again. Take care, hope today is better. x

PinaColada1 · 22/01/2019 10:04

Get board books from the library. There are some nice ones not too babyish. My son also ripped books. He stopped. It’s not forever.

Great advice from @oatmilk

Oliversmumsarmy · 22/01/2019 10:06

I am unsure what you mean by not having the time.

If you didn't go to the classes you would have that time.

If you didn't go to soft play you would have that time.

Agree with pp who said to remove trigger situations. Could you remove all the toys and anything that he can get his hands on to throw so it is all out of reach.

Ds has ADHD. I became an expert of going into a room and assessing potential breakages, things that could be thrown or swung on or what could be climbed on to get to a windowsill or place he liked to jump off.
His dsis has ADD so even now I have to check everything for her. If I don't she loses everything.

Somethings will work somethings won't but you have to work through things for several weeks with consistency before you find what does work and what doesn't.

JinglingHellsBells · 22/01/2019 10:07

I don't understand why you can't play with him at home. When you take him out, where are your other two children?

What does your DH do when it's the kids' bedtimes? Do you have a routine? Can you read to your son while your DH sees to the younger two?

I'm sorry but I think you'd really benefit from learning how to play with your child.

Your son needs 1:1 language input. This means reading to him, asking him questions about what you've read, asking him to predict outcomes in the story, etc. These are all VITAL parts of speech and language development. I'm sorry but if you aren't doing this or have no desire to try it, your son will be hugely disadvantaged at school (I spent 40 years teaching language, incl kids with ADHD, dyslexia, ASD etc.)

You need to read to him. Bedtime story, daytime stories, 10 minute sessions.

A child only learns language from what they hear adults speak.
If you cannot connect with your child either emotionally- except as a battle- or in a play situation, he is not going to develop emotionally or educationally.

Soft play is ok up to a point but he needs more than that.

Is he at nursery full time?

You have got a lot of support on this thread but so far you have not said that you will try anything- though you have said you will look into parenting classes. Your attitude is defeatist and although I get that 100% it does come back to you and how you can change things. A 4 yr old can't change unless you do.

There are books and videos on Sue Atkins site that might help if you can afford them.

JinglingHellsBells · 22/01/2019 10:07

Do cloth books still exist? They can't be ripped?

JinglingHellsBells · 22/01/2019 10:09

How does he rip up a book if you are holding it, reading it to him?
You hold the book, read it, point things out to him, ask questions, then you put it away.

Where does he get the chance to rip it up?

Does he snatch it from you?

You need some strategies.