To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

Would you consider a play therapist or get him seen privately? I would also push for another SLT referral to have his receptive and expressive language re-assessed.

I really feel for you. I would err on the side of caution with taking some of the advice about you having a 'DH problem', causing a marriage/relationship problem is the last thing you need right now. Unless your DS is diagnosed with a condition that means your husband can officially take time off they're not going to just let him come home because his son is having ongoing behavioural issues. Harsh but true. If your husband is otherwise kind and supportive of you I wouldn't be seeking to start fights there. You need support. Where are your wider family? Mum? MIL? Friends? Aunt? You need some respite

What was your own upbringing like op?

Op you are getting great advice re rules and boundaries but you don't seem to be listening. You're the parent so parent.

It's going to take more than one occasion of praise to change his behaviour - keep at, realistically could take a couple of weeks before you see significant changes.

You've made a good start today with contacting professionals, looking at increasing nursery hours, wrist strap etc. It sounds as if the meeting at nursery with HV could be helpful, as could dad taking some holiday.

You need to be consistent and repetitive with your son. It's not going to be easy but it is going to be worth it. With work it will get better for all of you.

From the answers that have put that your son has given it is so obvious that he has huge speech delay and delay in his receptive language- he doesnt understand what you are saying that is why is he is giving you random answers. He is using his bank of vocabulary to try and give you an answer you will be happy with but he doesnt understand. He has speech delay. You should insist on nursery following up on speech therapy. With help and symbols and speech together he will understand more and you will be able to communicate with him better.
My son had a bank of phrases and he used to rotate these in every situation he was in. It sounds very similar

Just wanted to check back in with you. I posted earlier this morning and have just read through the rest of the thread.
You have had loads of great advice here and that might be quite overwhelming.
I suggest you write some of it down.
Gp appointment booked. Nursery appointment made. Talk to dh and get on the same page. Decide on a couple of the most important things you want to change - eg walking next to the pram and not hurting his sister. Concentrate on those things first. Then move onto sitting at the table, watching tv nicely, or whatever.
Your ds with his speech delay will be behind with understanding communication so make things very clear.

"....he said "dad doesn't walk next to the pram" he goes...."
How did you react?
The normal reaction would be: but your dad is a grown up and you are a kid. Full stop. There is a huge difference and some things are allowed for grown ups and some are even never allowed for them.

I know the not sitting at the table seems like such a little thing to you but to outsiders it shows that you aren’t willing to enforce appropriate boundaries. It’s not harsh to insist that your children eat at the table it’s normal expected behaviour. My one year olds could do it. You sit at the table nicely or you don’t eat. They learn quickly.
You need to have higher expectations of you children’s behaviour or you are going to keep having the same problem.

OP I read this morning but didn't have time to reply. You poor poor thing. I think people are suggesting a bit more structure and boundaries eg at mealtimes because for many children, that really is essential. I am sure lots of children would thrive in your relaxed parenting style but not all will (just like not all will thrive in a very strict environment). It sounds like ds isn't. That said, I genuinely do think he may well have SN as I don't think his behaviour is normal at all, you sound like a great mother to me and I don't for a second think your parenting has led to his extreme behaviour. However it still may help if you try a more structured approach to your day rather than letting them do their own thing. Routine can greatly benefit children, SN or not.

Your priority does have to be safeguarding your babies and things like highchairs/play pen or travel cot may well help with that. I like your idea of changing the sleeping arrangements and extending his hours at nursery. See if you can self refer to speech and language in your area or if the hv can refer - this may be the quickest and easiest route into 'the system' and it sounds like his communication needs assessed. You need to push on with this because really he needs a plan for starting school to ensure he is placed in the best type of school for him.

I am surprised nursery are not seeing any of these behaviours and I do wonder if they aren't closely supervising or if they just don't think to tell you, I struggle to believe he is perfectly behaved there. Though structure, routine and boundaries may make him happier there, who knows. My lo who has asd and adhd didn't cope at all in nursery because she actually hated the routine there but they are all different.

Good luck

Sorry op, one thing I forgot. Once ds has been seen by professionals and reports outlining his needs are written, you can apply for DLA (even without a diagnosis). If he gets it, you can also apply for carers too. Maybe this would enable DH to reduce his hours a bit at work? Or for you to pay for more nursery hours or for his sister to go to nursery or whatever you need to try to help all of your family.

Otherwise, could dh cutback hours and you get a PT job? Because you seriously need a break, I fear for your mental health if this situation continues.

This sounds really hard OP, 3 children sounds exhausting at the best of times.

Unfortunately though I do wonder if you have a skewed idea of what’s “normal” for whatever reason? Is your DD at 2 not speaking at all yet either?

The things like sitting at a table sound small and you maybe consider them insignificant but when there is already a problem, firmer boundaries are a must.

I know it must be so hard and you sound really downtrodden from it all but when I’m feeling low for any reason or out of sync/control, I find doing the opposite of my impulses (like wanting to just sit and let them watch tv all day) and instead being really productive and organised makes me feel a lot better.

I must say it does come across as a bit alarming at how much opportunity he seems to have to hurt her your DD :( it sounds as though you feel it’s unrealistic to be in control of him but with little ones that’s just reality really. What I mean is he shouldnt be anywhere close to being able to trap her fingers in a door or between chairs. Standing behind her on a sofa and dropping something on her head requires more than a few seconds of action. They need to be separated and supervised at all times, which is just normal parenting really.

I hope things get better for you, it’s so sad to think of your DD in this situation and it’s very hard to write over the Internet without coming across as judgemental - I promise I’m not, I’m just trying to give a neutral and honest perspective because I do really agree with the posters saying that the biggest changes will come from their home life - even if that just means he’s given much less opportunity to treat your DD badly.

And yes get him a tablet if you can, it may help him.

FWIW I have a just 2yo and his speech isn’t great. He has a fierce temper when he doesn’t get his own way and is very strong. He doesn’t use a high chair and hasn’t for 3-4 months. He will sit on the bench next to his big brother and use cutlery with minimal fuss. Because since he was tiny he’s sat at the table with us for meals and was weaned at the table in his high chair. We still have the high chair in case we need to contain him.

He and his brother scrap over toys and snacks and jump all over each other but there’s no malice and they both stop when asked. They both have good manners and are well behaved at school/nursery

We definitely notice that behaviour gets worse when they’re out of routine or over stimulated. Our older one was a monster at the weekend after a soft play birthday party with a McD’s - too much crap food, over stimulation, tired and hyped up

We are fairly strict but mostly about routine and manners

I agree with smartiecake your posts about your DS are screaming language delay to me.

It sounds like he has difficulties with receptive language, so he doesn't properly understand what you are saying. No wonder he is struggling!

You really really need to get him seen and assessed by a speech and language therapist and a paediatrician asap. I'm glad you have a meeting with nursery, you need to really push for a referral/assessment whatever they can offer.

Sit between them at mealtimes, at the table. As soon as he starts climbing up behind your Dd on the sofa, with a wooden puzzle, firmly tell him to get down whilst bringing him down. Don’t put them in the same room without supervision, move her cot in with you and maybe you partner can sleep in his room for a bit? As pp have said, clearly you’re trying your best and nobody is trying to upset you, but you need to rethink your parenting - in the nicest way possible. The children are all crying out for boundaries and structure, and it will make things so much better for you too if these things are in place.

I have to say some really good advice here. Especially on practical parenting styles.

OP I think you've had some good advice and I think you are listening to some of the useful stuff which is good. I just wanted to say please don't blame yourself. Clearly, you are struggling with parenting your DS and need some help and advice and possibly a parenting course would help, but that said it's also entirely possible that given another child you wouldn't be having these issues at all. What I'm saying is that while you are struggling to parent this child it doesn't mean you are a bad parent, it sounds like a strong possibility that you are dealing with ADHD/ASD here and tbh most people would struggle because a lot of the normal stuff people do just won't work.

I also wanted to say that nursery saying they don't have a problem with him really doesn't mean much, though it may make your battle for diagnosis harder. Where I work I've heard of nursery staff saying they see nothing wrong with a child that actually had an autism diagnosis. Having watched my ASD DD grow up, the differences became more and more obvious as she got older, so I can see how that can happen from people who don't understand what they are seeing. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if you find he starts having difficulties as he progresses through school and expectations change.

Do fight the fight to get a diagnosis though. You won't get a team of professionals swooping in to fix everything sadly, but it will give him some legal protection in terms of how he is handled at school. And if it does turn out to be ADHD then it's entirely possible that medication could be life changing for him (and you). At the very least you should be offered parenting courses and advice.

Good luck.

^^ This.

If I only had my 2nd DD, I’d go through life feeling like the most amazing parent. Luckily I have DD1 to put all of that in perspective for me!

@CandleConcerto me too

I'm amazed your son could pick up a high chair and throw it and break it! My DS is 4 and there is no way he could do that with most high chairs and the Ikea one is pretty indestructible. Like others have said there is some sound advice on here. None of us are perfect parents but please give your children some boundaries and rules. Otherwise how will they know what's right and wrong?

It is very common for children who have or have had speech delays to exhibit aggressive behaviour. This will stem from feeling frustrated and then it can become a pattern of behaviour.

I wound suggest contacting your local SureStart children’s centre as they have Family Support Workers who may be able to help, or at least point you in the direction of the best avenue to get help.

SureStart also run a Triple P Positive Parenting Programme which is very useful - check the website. In regards to time out - Triple P recommend 1 minute per year of life, the TO must be done in total quiet and the clock re-set for every transgression, and once TO is done ensure you start a positive activity with the child (as opposed to berating them further for what they have done). I’m not sure how you are conducting TO but it’s just a suggestion which may help.

DS2 (5yo) is being assessed for asd, and we do struggle with some behavioural issues. When he sits at the table with his brother I put them at opposite ends and sit between them so I can be a physical barrier should he try to mess about with his brother - ie I stop him before he can lay a hand on him. Now, he does quite well at mealtimes although it was a slog to get to this point.

For the most part, he doesn’t understand boundaries and when he’s being too rough with his brother (or anyone for that matter!) so it’s up to me to constantly reinforce them.

I get that its bloody exhausting to constantly be hovering over one child and preventing him hurting his brother/himself, but it has to be done. I can’t leave him unsupervised because he has no impulse control and will turn on bath taps/climb stuff, so I make him stick with me and help me with jobs around the house, or with cooking (only mixing mind!).

I tell him what I expect behaviour wise before we do anything, and what will happen if he doesn’t comply. I stick with it even if I know he’ll meltdown. Aside from anything else, his brother needs to see me dealing with it too. He’s a bolter, so he gets a choice of using a wrist strap (not cool now he’s at school) or holding my hand. If he lets go and runs out comes the wrist strap.

I understand how frustrating it is op, but it has taken us so long to get to this point and we’ve only done so by being persistent and consistent. All kids need rules and boundaries. Oh, and he does better at school than at home but as previous posters have pointed out that is actually a thing with kids with asd, so I wouldn’t discount that just yet.

You need to push for a referral. He may or may not have asd/adhd, but something needs to happen here, cos it’s not working for any of you right now.

I know I gave you a list of things earlier (some people may agree with them others not), but I’ve just thought of a few more (again they may have already been mentioned):-

1. Volume. Are you spending a lot of your day shouting at ds? (If you are I bet every parent on this thread could understand why). If you are, ds may have just became used to you shouting, so when you shout because he’s about to do something dangerous like drop a puzzle from hight on dd’s head or run across a road, then it’s not ‘scary’ like it is to most children. So he’s not going to respond any different too it.

2. Tone. Try and keep your tone of voice neutral/calm. For example when he does something, ask him calmly ‘Can you tell mummy why you did that?’ Don’t worry if you can’t get a sensible answer, as long as he is replying, he is trying to tell you in HIS own way. Remember he hasn’t the vocabulary yet to express himself.

3. When he does something that upsets you, calmly sit down with him and say ‘Mummy feels sad because you hit me’, ‘dsis feels sad and she’s hurting because you trapped her fingers in the door’. As much as you may want to shout, keep calm, and give him an age appropriate explanation as to the consequence of his actions- dsis’s fingers now hurt and she is sad.

4. Always bring yourself down to his level when speaking to him. So when you want to talk to him, tell him off, crotch down so you are eye to eye and speak to him this way.

I know people have suggested that it could be SEND, sibling rivalry or parenting that is behind this. Just keep in mind that even if it is SEND and he gets a diagnosis, these boundaries, routines etc will still need to happen. It’s not going to be a case of saying ‘it’s okay he behaves like this because of X’. If the behaviours carry on, he’s going to be getting bigger and stronger, and causing more damage. It’s really important that what ever advice you are given in the future that you give your all to it as parents, fully implementing any strategies you are given.