To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

Hells bells woman. The issue is not the high chair. The issue is that you let CHAOS reign in your house

If you can institute some order - some small sense of structure and regulation - then your children will begin to feel more relaxed and happy. They will realise you are the parent and that you are in charge.

It is an incredibly easy win to put your DD in a high chair for dinner and have your son sit at the table. You seem to think it's some sort of extreme punishment for her to sit in a high chair? I think the rest of us can't help wondering if this attitude is the root cause of your problem. Children thrive when they have boundaries not when they are allowed to run feral.

So his sister gets to do what she wants and eat where she wants? Of course he's going to get down from the table and mess around.

He used to be the centre of your world and now two other children have come along and they get to do what they want (in his eyes). Of course he's acting out.

OP, you need to get the two year old in a high chair, get him sat at the table and sit with them whilst their eating dinner and supervise.

It's such a small little thing that you can build on, give them structure and boundaries.

It’s the fundamental rules that lay the foundation for further boundaries.

Stay at the table or no dinner.
Hold my hand to cross the road or go on the pram/on reins.
Don’t throw toys or they are taken away.
Don’t hit other DC or we leave the park.
Etc, etc.

People are focusing on the table thing as it’s simple to sort out and you and DC will see the benefits from it. You then have something to build on for setting other boundaries.

I know you've all got a point, but it's not like I'm forcing him to sit at the table, if he asked to sit on the floor too I'd let him. Youngest dd isn't usually here at mealtimes so she usually does sit at the table, but like I said ds will do anything for her attention including trapping her fingers and this is why I think she doesn't like sitting there.

I don’t understand why you are so against a high chair?

I would be mortified if someone came round and my 2 year old was eating off the floor like a dog. Why aren’t you? Toddlers go in high chairs, it’s normal!

What’s your background like OP? How old are you?

I assume that dd can eat where she likes because you don't want to battle with her or you're so exhausted with ds that you cba to sort it. By delaying the imposition of this basic rule you risk dd becoming a child who won't sit down in Burger King when she's older. It doesn't have to be a high chair. My kids were happy kneeling or in a booster.

Many kids (like your son) enjoy nursery because of the rules and structure. If your son has an issue like ADHD, ASD etc then rules and routines are comforting.

I used to do lunch-cover in a nursery. I could have 10 threes and under in a room for lunch. Those that were able to would be sat at the table with me, so generally from about 18 months or so.

And yes, they would sit. And sit nicely. I spent all lunchtime repeatedly telling them to sit nicely, with their feet down, but, you know what, most of the time they would. If their parents came to pick them up at that time they'd be amazed to find them so well behaved, and not moving until I told them I could. Maybe I was too harsh, but hey, with potentially 8 at the table I could not have them running around (even though I wasn't the only member of staff on duty). I would eat with them, as would whoever else was with me, in order to set an example, and sure, we'd have one or two who would push the boundaries, but they would get there. There is no way I'd let a two year old eat whilst sitting on the floor.

And you know what, even with 'all' my rules in place they loved it. They knew what I expected of them. We would have a laugh, but everything was under control. And when they were finished they'd put their own rubbish in the bin, wait for everyone else to finish then go and play.

It's not easy, but it can be done. Even with 2 year olds.

But why would you let her or your son eat wherever they want? For hygiene reasons alone that’s not good. What about dropped food, greasy hands, trodden in crumbs?

if he asked to sit on the floor too I'd let him

So basically your kids can do whatever they want, and you're surprised that your 4 year old doesn't listen to you when you need him to?

You are the parent. You make the rules. They need to all eat meals at the table because that is what will be expected of them as they get older. When your DD does to nursery she won't be able to eat on the floor - she'll need to eat properly at the table.

Why are you letting them dictate?

OP you need to bring in consistent boundaries and routines - if he is on the spectrum he will need it, if it is part of the problem.

You need to consistently enforce boundaries across all children making allowances for age

He's good at Nursery? Always? That wouldn't be possible if he was ADHD or Autistic

To be honest, I'm not convinced your son has SNs.

Blimey. You're right to be at the end of your tether. He sounds like a little tike. If I were you I would start by calling a parent helpline,
Followed by school/nursery so you have them on your side to back up monitor.
You don't mention you're husband much.
Many he needs to give you a bit more of a hand even if temporary just to give you room to breathe. After all he's both your child. No wonder he's at work all the time. And of course the GP. Hope it's gets better for you. It's not easy being nice to a child who is behaving in that way. I'd be the same but it sounds like you're doing the right things. Good luck xx

That’s not true by the way. Austistic child and children with other neurological differences can often behave fine at nursery/school and then meltdown and display challenging behaviour at home. It’s a very common observation.

Not saying this means that this boy is autistic, just wanting to correct this wrong information.

I don't think so either soup, I think it's down to my parenting. I just can't understand this obsessive behaviour towards his sister's. Like not even that long ago, we'd just got home. She was sitting on the couch so he picked up a wooden jigsaw puzzle thing, and dropped it onto her head from a height (standing on the back of the couch) I just can't understand it at all.
I've maybe been lax toward the sitting at the table, but even now I've made dinner and he is slapping her bowl away, or throwing her fork off the table. I genuinely don't know how to handle that?

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but just want to point out that just because DS 'behaves' in school does not necessarily mean that he understands boundaries and that this is a 'home issue' (ie parenting). DS1 was apparently an angel in school and was 'fine'. In reality he was selectively mute and 'crippled' with anxiety.

With hindsight his problems preexisted DS2. He was also very controlling and 'deliberately' mean to DS2. DS2 has ended up in A and E due to 'accidents'. This is exhausting and heartbreaking and not easily resolved. DS2 only really found space when DS1 went to residential specialist school. DS1's placement broke down but has never gone back to what it was with DS1 completely controlling DS2 despite my best efforts. At 18 and 12 their relationship is still pretty bad but at least DS2 does not exist in total fear of DS1. They both have ASD. Even though the root of DS1's behaviour is extreme anxiety the only help I have been offered is training in the use of restraint techniques to protect DS2 from DS1.

It feels like being split in two - sacrifice one child to protect another or don't sacrifice one child but place the other at risk. to you OP. It is hard.

But I praised him like hell for managing to walk beside the pram nicely and without the strap, I even got him a sticker and he was happy with that. And said to him we will tell daddy and dad will give you a high five so he does behave, he is a lovely boy when he isn't around his sisters

OP I feel for you. But you cannot allow your son to bully his sister(s).

What do you do when he drops a jigsaw on your DD’s head or throws plates at her?

It’s great that you have the meeting with nursery to get a referral, but you also need to bring in consistency and routine at home. Children with SEN usually benefit from a structured routine.
The reason people are focusing on the high chair is because eating meals as a family at a table a really important routine for children, and is often mentioned by childcare experts as a good place to start a routine (bedtime being the other crucial routine).
If DS traps DDs fingers, don’t sit them next to each other - put yourself between them. Make mealtimes fun - sing a song, tell jokes, get those mats that have pictures on them - the important thing is everybody knows that meals are taken at a specific time and place. It will help your children in future learn table manners for when they eat out, and means you can supervise all 3DC at once so DS can’t hurt DD. Even if you aren’t eating with them, have a cuppa or something so it’s a communal activity. It’s not really your DSs fault he doesn’t know how to behave in Burger King if he never has to do it at home.
My DS has always been a lively child, it was a nightmare to get him to sit at the table, but we persevered. He’s slowly getting better at it!
And yes most children are still in high chairs or boosters at age 2 .... it’s not usual to eat anywhere they like, must make cleaning up really difficult!

Say no. No hitting. Wat your dinner. If he does it again remove him from the table, and put him on a step on the stairs. Tell him to stay there, and think about his behaviour for 5 minutes. Every time he leaves, pick him back up and put him on there, telling him ‘right we’ll start the 5 minutes again, until you are ready to calm down and eat your meal like a big boy.

Don’t shout. Don’t smile. Don’t cajole. Be calm

You are obviously lax about food/mealtimes. Do you think you have been like that in other aspects of parenting eg playing, sharing, using toys, respecting the home, not climbing/jumping on furniture etc?

(This is why it’s useful to have DD in a high chIr - you can leave her to eat while you take him back to the step)

Hi OP - I'm sorry you are experiencing this awul problem. I've hesitated to answer your post because I wasn't sure if it would be helpful or move the discussion forward in anyway for me to do so.
I was the little sister in your scenario. My middle sister exactly like your son was the initial target, then I was born and it was all transferred to me. i grew up in absioute terror of my oldest sister and it has afected me all my life (low self esteem, self harm, anorexia,marrying a very abusive partner because I was so used to abuse) my middle sister spent her childhood trying to protect me and is extremely protective of me even now (we are 59 and 63 - you can see how long the effects have lasted)

I can remember my mother in tears screaming 'I can't cope with this' as my sister attacked me yet again. I had everything - pushed dowstairs, locked in cupboards for hours, woken in the night with a knife to my throat, pillows held over my face, boiling water thrown at me, hit every single day, verbally abused every day etc etc etc. Anything and everything would set her off, often for something like 'I just hate your face' or ' I don't like the way you smile' 'your laugh is stupid. never laugh again or '

I was told ' all sibling quarrel'. But they don;t not like this. This is not normal and anyone who thinks it is has never experienced this level of abuse from a sibling. I think you are very brave in recognising that this is not right, your DS's behaviour is way outside the boundary of normal. I applaud you for seeking professional help - I hope very much you get some help and recognition of this for the serious problem it is.

My parents tried everything, - harsh punishments, huge amounts of attention, rewards for good behaviour, anything and everything they could think of. Nothing worked.

As ana dult my sister has been diagnosed with a personality disorder, it is something beyond amentla illness that she has. I am no contact with her now, I went very low contact many years ago so she could never have anything to do with my children and harm them. On the few occasions I have seen her (family funerals etc)her behaviour has been beyond bizarre, she is a compulsice liar and still very abusive and aggressive in her behaviour and her outlandish reactions to anything.

I think the point I am trying to make with this ramble is don't give up on trying to find out what the problem is with your DS, it isn't normal, don't let anyone fob you off with 'sibling rivalry'. You aren't a bad parent - you have an extremely difficult child. No doubt you could (as we all could) try out different parenting approaches, no harm in trying, but I wouldn't set your hopes on them working (and I'm usually the first to offer techniques that work, - I've worked with children with behavioural problems).

Push as hard as you can for referral, get SS involved if you think that would help you, put your DDs first (and by putting them first and getting your DS help, you will help him as well).

I'm really sorry for you, it is a horrible situation for you, don't let some of the responses on here make you feel under attack. Most people are trying to help, but I believe this is beyond simple tinkering with parenting techniques, your son has a problem that needs expert help.

Sorry I haven't managed to read the whole thread OP but it sounds very stressful and you have my full sympathy. I think the first priority is to safeguard your younger ones. That means at the moment he must never ever be left unsupervised (including at night). In your shoes I would probably give up breastfeeding and focus on giving him on more one to one time. Maybe you share with him some nights and your husband on others. You need a proper plan to get him right at the centre of your focus because I think he is crying out for attention. Nobody but a psychologist can diagnose and they would probably say watch and wait as he is so young. In your shoes I would ring the council and ask for a family support worker. You are getting so much advice on here (and I've just added to it) but dont take any negativity to heart. You have really tried but now is the time for outside help.

but even now I've made dinner and he is slapping her bowl away, or throwing her fork off the table. I genuinely don't know how to handle that?

Probably because he's not used to her being at the table if you normally allow her to eat wherever she fancies.

Ideally you use preventative measures. Sit them at opposite ends of the table so he can't reach her, sort all her food out first then focus on him. Give her meals she can feed herself (so chop everything up or give her spoonable foods) and then focus on him and keep him busy. Lots of praise for sitting nicely, keep him away from his sister so he can't smash her cutlery and food about.