To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

Oh OP, I feel for you, this is such a difficult situation and people can be so insensitive and not realise that sometimes some children are just DIFFICULT!!

My first question is is he getting enough sleep? My eldest was a difficult child, he was so energetic and he was displaying adhd symptoms etc. Once he started school and his sleep schedule was sorted he improved ALOT!! Children who do not get enough sleep behave extremely erratically and this can come out in many difficult behaviour patterns, they are just too young to understand right and wrong with bad sleep patterns. I'd suggest sorting out his sleep and getting him into a constant routine where he can also use up his energy as much as he can through the day. Then you can talk to him and use the stickers and wall charts because he won't be in a constant brain fog from not having had enough sleep?

Apologies if this isn't the case though...

Separate their toys. His toys in one room, her toys in the other room. Put one of those cheap £5 door alarms that they have in small shops on her room that goes off every time it is open so you can hear it. Have them play apart with the doors closed.

As much as I hate them both get a scooter for him and have him ride in front of you while you are walking places. This will keep his mind occupied from making trouble.

Slightly controversial but if he has a tantrum while out and throws himself on the ground, keep walking. Don't stop, do not pay him any attention. Most likely once you get a certain distance away he will run to catch up but if he gets left behind, he gets left behind but I can promise you that if he does he will only do that once because it's a very scary experience for a little kid.

If they really must share a room put her back in a cot. For her own safety. Ger one of those mosquito net canopies that surround it so that he can't chuck stuff at her.

Do you have a backgarden? If so do a rotation on weekends. One of them inside doing crafts, one outside playing. Switch them around. Also put the naughty step outside. What's he gonna do? Rip up some grass?

OK, I'm not a medical professional, very ignorant, but can I ask a question (possibly) related to the OP?
"How do you parent children who have significant markers of sociopathy?"
I assume that you would need a lot of help from professionals.

I don’t have advice regarding your son, but i feel rather desperate for your little girls. He should absolutley not be sleeping in a room with your toddler. Even if toddler comes in to your room or girls go into a room together and he comes with you, they need to be separated.

Reading this it is a miracle one of the little ones hasn’t been seriously injured yet.

Also if he is throwing their plates at her, get paper plates and cups. Not great for the environment but nobody has ever been hurt by being hit with a paper plate.

Sounds a very difficult situation OP. I think the first thing is you go back to the GP with a typed list of concerns/examples of extreme behaviour and say you have concerns about your sons development.
I have a son with Autism although he is the youngest. He was diagnosed at 3.5yrs. He was a holy terror as a toddler. He did not hurt his sibling deliberately but he could not follow instructions, had no sense of danger at all. he pulled the curtain poles out of the walls by swinging on the curtains, he pulled bookcases over by climbing on them. He ate the soil out of my house plants. He could not be left unattended for a second and it nearly broke me and nearly destroyed my marriage. We did not have to fight hard for a diagnosis and then we were able to access support.
I think start with very firm boundaries. Can you keep the children separated at meal times? Opposite sides so he can't get to your daughter? keep him in his seat?
I would start with giving him choices. Make a now/next chart. Ask him what he wants to do now/next and give him a couple of choices and then have a picture or some sort of visual he can see.
E.g now- sit and eat breakfast. Next- watch cbeebies while you feed the baby.
You need to really go back to basics and reinforce what he needs to be doing at that time. Use limited language and repetition. No-sit and eat breakfast etc.
I also think he possibly has an underlying condition, maybe autism. He may have problems when he starts school but that will help you in gathering evidence. He sounds incredibly hard work.

My brothers were 7 years older and 4 years older than me. The oldest brother was OK, but quite remote from me. The middle one was violent to me all my life, but I got so used to it I came to regard it as normal. It was only when I visited friends' houses as a child or got to know other families better that I wondered why their older brothers didn't thump or taunt them all the time. Thinking back, I wonder why my parents did not intervene more with his violence as they weren't averse (like all their generation) to dispensing smacks to all of us when we were naughty. My memory is of him thumping me every time he passed me in a room, almost as a form of greeting. I remember as a teenager we were washing up together and he pinned me to the wall with a knife. (My parents weren't at hand). I can cite all sort of incidents but I'd need a whole separate thread.

He is nearly 70 now. He had a reasonably successful professional and academic life. Throughout his life he's been a nasty piece of work. I won't go into long detail. What always struck me was his ability to present a completely different persona to others. He has a manipulative side. This struck a chord when I read about your son. He behaves at nursery. It sounds like, at home, he's exerting terror because he feels he has the power to do so. At nursery there's something to be gained by acting differently. He's become highly-attuned to cause and effect. He obviously uses his power play in the different way, there.

There is probably some syndrome/label to be attached to it. However, that doesn't help you to deal with the real consequences of what you're having to go through. He obviously needs some intervention to break this power thing that he craves. I should do a two-pronged attack on GP and Health Visitor. It might help to put up a camera and film some of the things he does.

You need to be much more authorative. I would seek parenting help from camhs. A two year old is perfectly capable of sitting at a table for meals as is a 1 year old. If you have space I’d invest in a table. You said you don’t do anything together as family, your kids need to feel you are all a team. If you can get a table then sit and have meals together, sit and make playdoh together a, draw together, cook together. Try and involve him in helping you as much as possible and praise him when he does. Praise all of the helpful things he does infront of him to his dad. I work is this area and I promise you can change things around but you’ll have to put the work in.

I'm highly amused at all the claims that the kid is "trying to get attention" through his behavior (because all kids who do nasty things are little rays of sunshine who just want more love, right?).

On the contrary, the OP has described instances where he has hurt another child in a sly and sneaky way, attempting to do so behind his mother's back. THAT is what I find really concerning here. OP needs to get him out of his sister's room right now, even if it means someone in the family has to sleep in the living room or whatever. And see a specialist pronto.

And no, children cannot be diagnosed with sociopathy (because sociopathy is a personality disorder and a child cannot be diagnosed with any personality disorder because they do not yet have fixed personalities). They can, however, be categorized as having "callous/unemotional" behavior/traits. The good news is that children with callous/unemotional traits quite often do grow out of it as they get older (not always though).

This sounds like a really awful situation where op is too downbeat to really shake things up to be effective in parenting just now.

Op you have been really vague about the parental input from your dh. He works til 6pm, so presumably he's home in the evenings? What's his evening routine with the children?

You say your ds behaviour changed when dd1 started crawling, how was he prior to this? He's waking at 4am now...did he previously used to sleep through?

We're either of your dd's births traumatic/involving extended hospital stays?

I know it's easy for us to try and give advice and I'm sure you'll know what you've already tried but there is a few red flags in what you've written.

Saying he is a 'little shit'
Taking him to BK despite him not behaving on the way and in the restaurant - rewarding bad behaviour
No house rules - toddler being allowed to eat wherever she wants. Not safe or hygienic . Eating as a family round the dinner table is really important. Many people, including a SENCO have advised you of this yet you batted it away. All toddlers 'want' to do things their own way but it's down to us to parent them into acceptable behaviour and give them boundaries and routine.

If you continue to do what's easy nothing will change, you do realise that don't you? Nobody is going to swoop in and rescue you from the difficulties you're having with your son. No one will come and take him away.

All people can do is help educate and support you in giving you advice and strategies which will help if you have the tenacity to see them through.

The single most effective thing to start with is immediate consequences. If you don't implement them he'll never learn right from wrong or consequences of bad behaviour.

Put the girls together in his room at nights and take him out of there and put him in his bed alongside yours for now.

Tea time - batch cook when dh is home or use a slow cooker so meals are thrown in and left so you are free to supervise and parent him.
Locking him out the kitchen every day must be making him feel tremendous frustration and rage towards you and his sisters.
Its really, really unfair and is not helping in the long run.

The girls need to be sat in high chairs and he needs a special seat at the table. If he plays up you remove him, each and every time.
He craves attention, he's getting a high out of the destructive behaviour as well as negative attention and this feeling may become addictive to him.

Does he have children his own age to play with outside of nursery?
Outdoor play daily?
Healthy meals and snacks?
Just Water/milk to drink?

I think if the behaviour is really extreme you need to be filming it (discreetly- don't make him aware or he may play up more) and keep a log as pp suggested. You may start to see triggers.

Instead of reactive parenting you need to get pro-active. Plan everything, make a timetable, risk assess your house and put safety measures in place to prevent him being able to put himself at risk (keep from door on a chain/top lock) Remove things he can use to throw/hurt his sisters.

Forget the GP for now, the HV is better equipped to deal with this as he's under 5. Also the staff at nursery may be able to help refer you for support.

I'm highly amused at all the claims that the kid is "trying to get attention" through his behavior (because all kids who do nasty things are little rays of sunshine who just want more love, right?).

No one has said he's a 'little ray of sunshine' - he clearly isn't! But yes, most four year olds who act really badly are almost certainly attention-seeking. He's still really very young.

@Kokeshi123 I am highly amused that you haven't noticed that he is behaving perfectly at his nursery and only repeats bad behaviour at home. That is the sign of attention seeking.

OP take a look at handinhandparenting.com

it may help to see he's not naughty just really threatened by his sibling.

it is absolutely exhausting and it seems like discipline is the answer but it is probably the opposite.

good luck x

the OP has described instances where he has hurt another child in a sly and sneaky way, attempting to do so behind his mother's back.

This also gets a reaction:
The other child makes noises that can be very satisfying - if you are bored, get someone else to react, or if you want attention and can't get to your parents right now, little siblings are great.
The parents do attend when they hear what's going on.
They then tell off the child - attention.

The fact that he is perfectly capable of behaving at nursery and gets nasty when he is around his tiny, vulnerable siblings is exactly what I find unnerving, actually.

You are concentrating on punishing him. To me he is very jealous.
I would give him lots more attention. If you have a parter leave the baby and go out just with him.
Praise anything he does well. The baby most get most of your attention and clearly he isn't coping well.
There is no pay back for him. You brought a baby to his house and he probably hates it.
See it from his point of view.
He is only young and his negative feelings are getting the better of him.
Look at your behaviour towards him? So much has change since the interloper arrived and stole his mother.

@stressedmum0f3 I feel so much sympathy for you. It is so utterly draining when your child behaves this way.

One more thing to consider - does your son have asthma / allergies? Is he taking Montelukast/ Singulair (or any other medication)? This asthma drug is known to cause aggression, violence, anxiety, sleep disturbances and suicidal behaviour in children. My friend's child was biting and kicking her during nappy changes etc after being on the medicine for several months, another's turned psychotic, this time immediately after taking it. My child had all the side effects. It can be great for some people but the side effects can creep up on you so you don't pin them on the seemingly innocuous asthma pill / powder.

Another one is pain - does he have acid reflux? I feel like murdering people when I have reflux starting to bubble up - an internal rage - until I recognise what it is and take medication.

Huge hugs to you going through this. Hope you find some respite.

I just want to wish you well OP.
I really relate to your situation and all this conflicting advice (and unhelpful judgement - wtf Nixen?) must be hard to stomach.

Majority of people on here know that you're doing your best.
Go give him a big big hug (when he's asleep if he's not receptive in the day time) and book that doctors appointment on Thursday X

So much fantastic advice on this thread OP, please don’t dismiss it.

I would second a call to your health visitor, do it right now. If it’s easier for you to text her (and if that’s a possibility) then do that but if not, call her. Don’t delay this, you need help ASAP and doctors always have long waiting lists. Hopefully she will see you as a matter or urgency and will be able to offer you some much needed support.

What I would advise is that your DP puts DS to bed alone every evening. You said DP returns at 6pm and DS’s bedtime is 7pm so this is perfect. Let DP take over entirely, give him a bath, read to him and tuck him in. Let your DS talk things out with DP if that’s what he wants to do. Alternatively use this time to allow DS to draw his feelings- many children find drawing an effective outlet and have him describe the drawing to you afterwards. There are lots of books to try and help young children understand their feelings, a good one my DC always liked is The Feelings Book by Todd Parr. Can almost definitely get this on eBay for cheap. This also allows you to have a much needed break and for your DP to bond with him.

You definitely need to separate the bedrooms. Have your DDs in with you and DH sleep with DS as others have suggested. It isn’t safe for DD and DS to share and I suspect DS will enjoy having his own space too. This will obviously only work temporarily so you will need to look for somewhere else to live. I realise you have a mortgage but this can easily be transferred over to another house as people do all of the time.

Try a fold out table and chairs since space is an issue. It’s important for children’s routine and stability to eat meals together. Agreed with PP’s that your 2 year old should not be roaming around. If you can’t get a fold out table, get another chair for yourself and sit close to them. Put baby in a high chair and let them eat together. Batch cooking on the Sunday your DP is off is a brilliant idea so you don’t have to worry about cooking through the week.

If he is behaving fine at nursery then I really don’t think this is SEN. I strongly believe he is jealous and is acting out, he’s also crying out for solid boundaries. You are NOT a bad mother, a bad mother would not be posting on here begging for help. Please remember this and don’t knock yourself anymore, it doesn’t help anyone. Don’t take anything anyone has said on here as a criticism, the vast majority are trying to help you.

Stick to the same routine every single day. I know this seems monotonous but it’s important for some children in order to feel secure. I definitely agree with watching super nanny videos, she offers some fantastic advice.

No I'm not putting my girls into together. The youngest is up constantly and it just wouldn't work.
Yes he used to sleep through the night. Struggling to answer everyone but thank you for all the input

I’ll admit I was feeling a bit judgemental till I read about your 2nd and 3rd pregnancies being unplanned and you were beyond unlucky with contraception failures. My heart goes out to you, exactly the same thing happened to one of my close friends, except she already had 2 children who were both primary school age when the first unplanned pregnancy happened. She has 11 months between her younger 2, and her elder 2 being at school is probably the only thing that prevented her from breaking, although it came close.
I’m not going to offer any well meant advice, anything I could contribute has already been suggested, and it sounds like you’re firefighting all the time, which makes it so difficult to put plans and long term strategies in place.
What I’ve said is about as much use as a chocolate fire guard, but I just feel for you

Are you going to separate your ds and 2 year old?

OP - all the advice in the world (may it be the best or worst) won't help you unless you decide to be an adult. It is extremely difficult and you are drained to the point of not giving a f.... That is expectable and "normal" with 3 kids this small. But it doesn't change anything. In order to protect your kids (all of them!) you need to be strict. Even to the point of actually not caring. Let me elaborate on that. Tantrums and behaviour in general is a power play. Any situation that gets out of hand is mainly because the players react on an emotional level and get drawn in. And that's when you raise your voice,...etc.
By not caring I mean that you are able to stay cool and keep in mind that you are not deliberately hurting you son in any way, you are just establishing control and with that helping him to be a kid and enjoy life.
Also being able to detach for the sake of a "greater good" and still be able to feel everything (love, sadness,....) takes practice. It is way too easy to swing the other way and get too detached.

If you can get to a point where you honestly don't care about the power play and are able to say: I am in control, these and these are the rules, then you can start changing things.

Wants to hold his sister's hand when walking. You can if you don't hurt her. He hurts her: short leash (really awful, but sometimes needed as you only have 2 hands) or hold your hand and walk behind the pram with you. Result: tantrum. Fine. Hold his hand and drag him along. Keep going wherever you were headed. Don't go home - that means he won, he has the power. Don't start arguing: he won. Don't be fussed, angry or ashamed - he won.
Just keep going.
Signal: I am in control and unless you meet minimum requirements of behaviour I will just keep on going/doing my stuff until you come around.
The other thing you will have to let go of: what others think in public. Just forget it. They are not in your shoes, they don't know why your doing stuff and a few minutes screaming won't hurt anyone.

Burger king: you were the one who let him play with the door. He is 4.5, you can still pick him up and physically restrain him. You are his mum. Sit him on your lap when he's eating, otherwise hold his hand while waiting. He doesn't get to go around and cause pain. discomfort/disturbance to other people just because he is bored, feeling angry,.... That's not how societies work and not how families work.
Again: the result will be a tantrum. If you already have the food: Offer him the option to sit in your lap and eat, or to leave the food, go home and only have dinner x hours later. You will most probably have to do the latter. He is small, but he'll survive.
And even before that: whilst waiting in line he will tug and try to get away. No. Hold his arm and don't let go. He will scream. Fine, let him. Point out to him how many other people are doing it (hopefully 0). Show him that there is another way. Go down to his level and ask him to recite a rhyme or something that he needs to actually think about.
Or simply state that if he continues you will go and he will have to wait until dinner to eat anything.

Kitchen: I'm guessing the scenario, correct me where I'm wrong. You are at the counter, doing something, 2 year old is around your legs, somewhere/roaming or let's say playing. Smallest is in pram, high chair, cot? DS comes in.
Before anything happens order (ask him very firmly!) him to come to you. If he won't, put down what's in your hand, hold his hand, take him to the bench (your previous position) and tell him you asked him to come to you and you expect to be listened to. At this point: you expect this because you are the adult and in control. (Sorry to say, but being a kid is tough). Then immediately give him something to do. E.g.: Go fetch a book from the living room/his room. Then ask firmly (order) him to come next to you (if possible on a small step so he can reach the counter) and put the book there and show you this or that. Just say you remembered something from this book and you need him (his help) to find out more. You can only remember it partially. It was something yellow....blabla... If he start to even look into sis direction instantly react to it: I've asked you help with this, could you focus on it?
Again: you control the situation and not him. Also you are teaching him to control his emotions and impulses, by controlling them for him.

Every child needs to be on the reacting side mostly, as they are not mature enough either mentally or emotionally to handle control.

Through all of this please don't forget to tell him you love him and would go to the moon and back, but his behaviour is not acceptable. You love him, but he (as everyone else) has to do the bare minimum in order for this family to work.

Unfortunately for you OP, there are millions of little tricks, but each situation needs a controlling behaviour on your part and if it's not in your nature then finding these will be hard. And there are millions of situations every day. It is tiring and noone is there to show you how these work. And noone can help you endure the tantrums that will come in the first few weeks.
Unless your DS really has an underlying issue, manning up, controlling the situations and being strict should have an effect quite soon.

And one more thing: You should pick your battles carefully.
I'd suggest the same as many have done: create daily routines: fixed times to get up, eating at the table for all kids,...
Once these are really routine and no kid challenges them (a week or so I'd guess) move on to the next one: harmful behaviour. Try preventing them with controlling the situation (and giving DS stuff to do).

I have to say the idea of replaying a bad situation and showing how it could have been done better is great!

Another piece of advice I read on here that’s very true is to make sure you take him outdoors to run around as much as possible. Some children need this more than others and it sounds as though your DS would hugely benefit from it. Even if it’s raining, get his wellies and raincoat on and let him burn some steam.

I fully sympathise as I had three DC with similar age gaps and my middle DC was ‘high needs’ from the beginning. She’s still the most challenging of the three but now she’s seven and a half is definitely starting to calm down a lot. She basically needs lots of one:one time, needs to know she is being heard and never ignored and needs boundaries to feel safe and secure. I mentioned the drawing thing because I have always used it with her, she draws and sometimes writes underneath then will explain to me what she has drawn and why she has drawn it.