To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

I just wanted to add about your suggested new sleeping plan. How would your ds think about him being the only one sleeping alone? It sounds like he needs more time being included (so that he doesn’t become angry or jealous) so please rethink this. Also your baby may actually wake less in a different room to you.

Also, please think, and write down, how you actually feel about your ds. I say this with experience but I once had a lot of anger to one dc due to his behaviour affecting the whole family, when I reflected on how my interaction with him showed this to him and made an effort to change things improved.

He probably feels like you prefer his sisters. Instead of having the girls in the kitchen with you while you are cooking could you try having him in with you helping you prepare and cook tea? Give him little jobs to help you, a reward for being a big helpful boy? I get my girls to help peel vegetables, get things out of the fridge and lay the table with cutlery. They love helping out and it helps stop them fighting in the playroom while I'm in the kitchen.
Reward charts are fantastic, they really help them to concentrate on rewards for bad behaviour and enforce consequences instead of punishment.
A small treat everyday for achieving at least half the stickers that can be earned a day and a large treat at the end of the week. I used to do sticker books/collectible small things like moshi monsters when my boys were small then a one to one treat such as cinema/soft play/McDonald's.
The naughty step isn't working for you so stop doing it. It must just be adding to your stress. Sometimes a cuddle and chat can be more effective. All violence should have a consequence such as losing a sticker already earned or no screen time etc.
Lots of positive engagement and praise for being helpful/kind/ loving and hopefully he will be happier and less jealous of his sisters.
I would suggest separating them at night, your daughter is being hurt by him and she needs to be safe and he is a danger to her at present, it may be better to put the girls in together and him in with you as then he will feel special. If you do it the other way round he will feel again that you prefer them and he is an outsider.
Distraction works a dream at times, keep a diary of his bad behaviour and see if you can identify trigger points or particular times of the day where he is more likely to get overwrought and try to plan to be doing something with him at that time. Even if it's just a game of cards or building some Lego.
Neither of my boys were very interested in craft and would get bored easily but they loved baking. Making cakes/bread rolls whatever we could do to occupy them for a bit and then they tended to play more calmly after some positive interaction.
The health visitor should have services or strategy's that can help. I'm not sure what a gp could do as his behaviour sounds like jealousy rather than an underlying health issue.

He sounds bored, attention seeking and jealous. The reason he is obsessed with dd is because he has seen her because the focus of your attention and so is using her as a means to get attention himself.
Even at 6am he needs direction for his energy. Kids are ready to go as soon as they open their eyes. It doesn't mean you have to do some elaborate activities but get him to help with buttering the toast. Fold the clothes etc.
Set out play doh or colouring while you cook and keep an eye on him. Do not lock yourself and babies away from him as it's sending the message that he is pushed out. Move dd out of the bedroom.
Forget the naughty chair/step and praise praise praise. Anything and everything no matter how small. Distract him when he is playing up.
If he hurts his siblings then he gets moved from the game but not out the room for x minutes.
Get him out every day to run off energy. Babies in the buggy and let him run around the park/go for a walk.
Ask him to help with the younger two. Get nappies or drinks etc and again praise praise praise.
He needs some positivity from you and dad right now. He will sense you are fed up of him and this will make him feel more pushed out and in turn he will misbehave. He's got into a cycle of craving negative attention and you need to pull him out of it.
I take my dd out alone some weekends and love bomb her.
You say he does classes and soft play but you don't say if his little sisters come along. If they do they are still getting attention he wants at his activities.
I realise you are bf but I was too until recently and you can leave baby for a few hours by 7 moment as she will be having some solids. Get dh to try a cup of expressed milk if needs be and go out alone with your son. He needs you now XX

I really feel for you! My daughter is not as extreme as this but had some of these behaviour traits and it is exhausting. She's wonderful at school (young reception so not much older than your son).

You've had loads of good advise and I hope you can get some support. Some things that worked for my daughter:

Got hearing checked and she has glue ear with some hearing loss. We are waiting to get it sorted but gives me some understanding.

Ignoring (literally ignoring) some bad behaviour. If it was directed at her sister I give her sister all the attention. Hard when it's violent though I know. Also being extra nice to her other times and reinforcing how much I love her and how well she does at school/reading/activities etc.

Making sure she has down time as well as school/activities as she is so active and school is tiring. Down time watching tv/doing craft with me/playing on iPad/playing alone in playroom.

Following through on threats and leaving places when she thinks we won't. On occasion we have left activities and friend's houses midway through when she won't behave, this always shocks her and she knows we will go if she continues.

She loves reward charts and bribery but doesn't sound like that motivates your son.

My youngest is lovely in every way and at least it has made me realise it is not my parenting - we have good routines, boundaries and they get loads of attention - it's just how she is and it's hard to find the right strategies.

Yes user because that is exactly how I've said it I flounded because admittedly I was getting upset. Obviously I realised 3 kids in quick succession was going to be hard but it's just as hard to hear "he is crying out for your attention" or "his heart is broken because he lost you"
He gets me, every day for an hour and half like I said. This is usually when the baby is asleep or a friend watches the girls for me. In this hour and half, he has 2 classes which happen twice a week. Other times we go out, other times we go upstairs and attempt a jigsaw.
I did try and get a children table but he broke it by standing on it. Then broke the chair by throwing it. it's not just behaviour towards his sister's that I'm concerned by
Thatwasfast, I'm sure you'll be happy to hear that during the c section I had a hysterectomy. So future babies there will be none.
I personally don't think ds will care at being alone. My dd only went into his room in November so he has previously been alone

You sound like a pushover who has given your children no boundaries, and has had too many children too quickly when you can’t handle the first one. No wonder your husband works so much, I’d try to escape too if I was him. You need to get firm, and quickly. You’ve chosen to be a parent, now you have to step up and act like one.

The thing is OP I honestly don’t think you need a GP appointment.
You and your DH need a good course of parenting classes and to read as many self help books for difficult, jealous and acting out behaviour.

I think that is pretty dangerous advice. Her son is trying to seriously hurt her daughter. OP needs some professional input. It might be that changing the way she parents will solve it, but when a child is trying to hurt a sibling by pressing down hard on their stomach telling OP that she doesn't need to see a GP is irresponsible.

OP you have been given a lot of good advice. I would definitely see your GP. It sounds like you are going to need a lot of support through this. And just echoing other posters, sometimes we need to change the way we parent, but that doesn't mean you are a bad parent.

I hope you get all the support you need and things become easier soon

Sounds very difficult OP. I also have a 4 year old DS who is a bit of a handful at times, though he doesn't have younger siblings to contend with.

My suggestion is to get him outside in the open air for as long as possible each day, irrespective of the weather. Don't take him to soft play, take him to the woods. Let him bash trees with sticks if he wants to, run around and scream if he wants to. Take him for a long walk up a hill or along the beach, if you can. 4 year olds can walk much further than you think. If you have a forest school locally consider sending him there.

you don't seem to be willing to listen to any advice. Its obviously very hard for you at the moment, but people are giving you good advice, that you are not hearing. Why should your son sit at the table if your daughter is roaming around (or you are) ?

The OP asks "what's wrong with my son".
Many messages mention poor parenting. Others the possibility of ADHD or autism. Fine.
I mentioned another possibility. But apparently it is not allowed?
Sociopaths/Psychopaths (0.5-4% of the population depending who you believe) have been 4.5 years old once.
I am not offering a diagonastic, I am obviously not qualified, never pretended to be.
But why is it such a taboo?

Well, obviously I’m not happy you had a hysterectomy with your section. You mentioned that your 3rd dc was an accidental pregnancy when you were living in a 2 bed flat with 2 children already, it’s not unreasonable to question whether you have adequate contraception.

Why can’t you move to a 3 bed in a cheaper area OP?

You sound like a pushover who has given your children no boundaries, and has had too many children too quickly when you can’t handle the first one. No wonder your husband works so much, I’d try to escape too if I was him. You need to get firm, and quickly. You’ve chosen to be a parent, now you have to step up and act like one.

Nasty.

You are reading a post from someone who is struggling badly and you feel the need to post this shit? WTF is wrong with you?

but eventually gets up, my ds wouldn't have sat at a table at 2 years old no I'm not gonna enforce that. If you can't control a 2 year old there is no way you will control a physically strong 4.5 year old with possible additional needs. You do need to set some boundaries for your children or they will all think they can do whatever they like when they like. I bet your DS sits at a table at nursery to eat and so should your other children.

Tshotsho - because you can’t diagnose children with psychopathy!!! It is not a childhood diagnosis!
You can’t diagnose children with any personality disorder until they are 18. Even if they are showing signs of one at 17, you would refer to it as a ‘possible emerging personailty disroder’

Children can’t be diagnosed as psychopaths. You are showing your complete ignorance.

I am a doctor who has worked in psychiatry

@tshotsho because the neurological development of the brain means that young children can still be redirected and develop in a different way even if they have significant markers of sociopathy. It is not diagnosable in children. So whilst sociopaths were indeed once 4.5 yo they were not, at that time, sociopaths or guaranteed to become sociopaths

So your "diagnosis" is inaccurate, unhelpful and highly emotive in a thread where the OP is clearly experiencing massive challenges and needs support not scaremongering

If you read through the OP's updates all together it sounds like she's tried everything. I wonder if it's even possible to use some of the parenting strategies you typically hear about when one child's behaviour is so extreme, and you have two others? Maybe it is but I worry it would be totally beyond me unless I kidnapped Jo Frost and made her live with me for 6 months.

I honestly don't know what I'd do in your situation. I definitely wouldn't cope as well as you have. I would go through the thread now and pick out all the parts about routes to professional help. Then just keep on pushing for that (I know you have been pushing, but just keep on like it's your mission in life), stressing that this is desperate and an emergency now.

ShesABelter Mon 21-Jan-19 11:02:59
I think you should forget all the advice on here just now except do whatever you need to do to get through the days until you can see the educational psychologist.

I thought this ^^ was good advice. Anything else is like a sticking plaster over a gaping wound at the moment.

I think I would move to the living room to sleep in with one of the kids if I were you - as you mentioned you were thinking of somewhere in the thread - and DP can possibly sleep with the other or with your DS perhaps? Just to separate them and make sure no harm comes.

Also TshoTsho, the accepted statistic is 1% of the population are psychopaths. Many surgeons, business people, bankers etc are psychopaths.

@SoftSheen I agree.

Op don't underestimate the power of getting outdoors and letting him run and climb and throw sticks etc I'm not saying it will be the answer to your prayers, but it's a good start.

Don't be ridiculous TshoTsho.

TshoTsho it's not that it's a "taboo". It's that you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I worked in children's mental health for over ten years and I can assure you that it's not possible to identify Antisocial Personality Disorder in a 4 year old.

This child is clearly very distressed. Yes, his behaviour sounds extremely challenging and it's understandable that OP is finding it difficult. But he is a child, being labelled a psychopath is absolutely the last thing he needs and it's the last thing OP needs to hear.

Nixen Mon 21-Jan-19 11:15:04
You sound like a pushover who has given your children no boundaries, and has had too many children too quickly when you can’t handle the first one. No wonder your husband works so much, I’d try to escape too if I was him. You need to get firm, and quickly. You’ve chosen to be a parent, now you have to step up and act like one.

And you sound like an unsympathetic, judgemental bitch.

I thought this was good advice. Anything else is like a sticking plaster over a gaping wound at the moment [see and ed psych.].

An educational psychologist is not the right type of professional.
I have worked with ed psychs for decades through work.
They assess ability (IQ)
They do not deal with behaviour though they can assess dyslexia & , dyspraxia .

A paediatrician assesses ADHD, through the NHS.
A child psych- not an ed psych can make some assessment on behaviour.

I know people are trying to be helpful, but there is a lot on info here that is incorrect and will possibly only confuse the poor OP.

As a few other posters have said and I agree 100% this is a parenting issue.

Parenting classes, maybe 1:1 support, even some books, can help.

I would consider "kidnapping" Jo Frost as well. It's a very tricky situation.

He sounds jealous - he was an only child, then all of a sudden his mother's attention has been taken away by a new baby, and then yet another baby arrives, making him, possibly, feel even less important in the family.

He's not a sociopath FFS He's a little boy who doesn't know how to handle his emotions.

There is support out there, OP, and you've had some fantastic advice on this thread.

Op apart from a few posts on here most of us are only trying our best to come up with helpful suggestions. You have a lot of sympathy and understanding from many.

I am pleased to hear you're changing the layout so your son isn't in the same room as your daughter.

Please go to that gp appointment - it's more important than the nursery meeting which you can rearrange.

Also agree start enforcing some simple clear boundaries - meal times must be eaten at the table - this goes for everyone! Start as you mean to go on.