To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

Since you don't have enough table space, try a blanket. At mealtimes, you all sit around the blanket like a picnic. No wandering around, DS one side of you, DD1 the other. No TV or toys at the 'table', and no wandering around.

^^ This is a good idea - perhaps also get eldest involved in serving food or setting table/blanket or giving plate of foor to other child - mine loved to help like this even DS.

I've reported tsho tsho's comment.

OP pay no attention to them x

OP my heart is breaking for you, you sound so miserable and at the end of your tether.

But please do not give up on your son. The fact that nursery think he he is great is a good thing. It does suggest that the problems at home can be fixed, as he does not present with them at school.

Your priority is to protect your daughters. Being woken in tears and in pain every night will be having a deep, profound and long lasting effect on her and it needs to stop NOW. Put your son in your bedroom with you, he needs to feel loved as right now he probably feels like the most unwanted kid ever. Put a tall stair gate on your bedroom and put your baby on the landing if need be.

Ignore your sons bad behaviour. You say it is weird that he pretends to scratch the car and destroy things, it really is not. At his age they are all about pretending and imagination but instead of being a super hero, he is consumed with anger and jealousy and so that is manifesting as destruction. He has learned that the only way he gets attention is to be naughty or even to pretend to be naughty. Get him an Amazon kids ipad, they are guaranteed for two years no questions asked and it will help to give him focus and be something just for him.

Also, you really need to enforce boundaries desperately. Not just with him but with all your kids. Children throve wit strict routines and firm rules. They do not want to sit at the table? well that's tough. Mine all sat in high chairs, then at the table until they were 13/14. So get the two youngest highchairs with trays and you and your son have a seat each. Or get a folding table and chairs for in the living room. Ask your son to help you chose dinner, butter some bread, anything so that he feels like a big boy that is getting to do something that the other two are not allowed.

You can get through this. Just start looking for solutions instead of problems. You need to separate the kids, you can do that with stair gates.

You do not have 3 bedrooms, so get a folding bed in the living room or a single day bed that looks like a sofa with a trundle underneath it. Then you and your OH and baby can sleep in their. Your son can have his own room as he is desperately in need of some space of his own, and so is your daughter.

If you 100% can not do that then consider a partition wall in the biggest bedroom with a stair gate to separate them so they both have their own space.

Make easy food choices. Batch cook when the kids are asleep so you can just reheat or buy easy cook food like pizza, ready made meals and supplement it with lots of fresh fruit and veg.

Try and cuddle your son as much as possible. For no reason. If you see him going to do something naughty then divert him with a tickle fight and pepper his face with butterfly kisses. give him the attention before he is naughty to try and break the cycle.

His behaviour sounds like its learned. I am a mum of four and had something very similar as my kids were very close together too. You can do this.

TshoTsho wins most helpful comment of the thread Give your head a bloody wobble.

understand it’s very hard but I’ve just read the two year old is eating cereal on the floor because she doesn’t like the table. No wonder he kicked it over, too tempting by half. Why is a two year old ruling the roost? You decide that she sits at the table to eat. The incident could have been avoided and he could have missed another telling off if she had been eating properly at the table.

I thought exactly the same. Put the 7 month old in a highchair and they all eat together at the table with you.

Tshotsho what a ridiculous thing to write! He is 4!!!! Please ask for that to be deleted.

OP, have a hug, you sound exhausted. Keep pushing for help, eventually someone will listen. Personally, I think it sounds like a little bit more than plain attention seeking. You can't do any more than your best.
Once he starts school, you'll definitely see some change.
Good luck with your meeting. 🌺🌸🌺🌸
.

I'm sorry OP. It sounds so tough. I can't say if the GP can help so I wanted to give some tips

• firstly toddler proof your home. Lock your door from the inside if you aren't already.

• batch cook your meals as someone said and/or keep them as basic as possible. Slow cookers are great and cheap. You can make a casserole for example and just make some mash and peas. Get you DC to help. Don't exclude either DD1 or DS. For example, DS can help mash the potato, DD1 can help spoon peas onto everyone's plate.

• if you have no space for extra chairs at the dining table then have a meal blanket or oil cloth which you can lay down on the floor and all sit together.

• I think it's a good idea to separate them from the room temporarily providing no one is alone. Secluding DS will do no good. It sounds like you've sorted that anyway for the time being (Dh downstairs with DD1).

• clean as little as possible for a while. Just do the bare minimum and go easy on yourself where possible.

Reward charts don't work with every child. How about a routine chart? You can make it together. He can tick off things that need doing. So you add brush teeth, get dressed etc. but perhaps also add:
"play with toys nicely"
"Have a warm drink (you can have tea!) and read with mummy and sis"
"Mummy and DS time when daddy is home".
It sounds like he may have some bad behavioural habits and new habits need to be created.

It does sound like he is very active so perhaps he could have some ipad/tablet time?

When I have been cooking tea with grumpy toddlers/infants I often utilise the high chair, can you set your two youngest up in high chairs with snacks/toys etc while your eldest helps to prepare tea?

My 5 yr old is able to wash vegies (sometimes I get her to do it even though the veg don't need it just to give her something to do), chop mushrooms (if you trust him with a knife), put things in the pots with some help etc. She also helps dish out tea so you could perhaps involve him in that part of things, getting plates, cutlery etc.

High chairs at the table would be a much easier option for eating, I must admit to always being worried about choking so mine have never eaten unless in the high chair or under strict supervision.

We also have baby gates that enclose the lounge, that might be another option to contain the little ones while DS5 helps you to cook?

Another thing I found useful.

Minimize everything now and build slowly. It’s worse repeating doing something badly. Behaviour gets ingrained. So cut out all things which are most volatile.

No Burger King. No leaving any kids unsupervised. No sleeping together in the same room if he can’t be trusted. Etc. Fine not to cook for a month like others have said, make one huge pasta and heat in microwave.

Start small steps.

When say Burger King is introduced back in. Do it as a plan which can be aborted quickly as soon as behaviour is bad. Think through exactly what you will do if any bad behaviour happens in advance. Prepare the kids by telling them what will happen.

Tsho Tsho unless you are a medical professional and can give some constructive advice, then wind your neck in!

Totally inappropriate. Talk about kick someone when their down. Dick!

Tshotsho- you cannot diagnose children as psychopaths. I mean you literally can’t.

Psychopathy/sociopathy is a personality disorder. You can’t diagnose a personality disorder until someone is an adult, as their personality is still developing. Most toddlers would be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder otherwise, as 3 year olds are egocentric.

If you aren’t a professional, don’t offer a diagnosis. It just makes you look ignorant, and can spark unnecessary panic and worry

I didn't write that for fun.
But it's obviously a taboo.
Many people don't want to acknowledge the possibility of Antisocial Personality Disorder, while it is statistically not that rare, comparable to ADHD or autism.
It might help parents to acknowledge the possibility, and to obviously seek professional advice.

Tsho Tsho, if you were a clinical psychologist you'd be a danger to the general public, but I'm glad to see from the terms used and your limited/incorrect understanding of issues around the developing callous/unemotional traits literature and practice that you're evidently not working in an associated field.

OP, I see you have GP appointment forthcoming. May I wish you luck with this and repeat previous posters' recommendations to ask for all support possible for you and your family. I'm so sorry that everything is so hard for you right now. Sending hugs and very best wishes. With the right support (please ask for support from local CAMHS, preferably a clinical psychologist), this will be much more manageable for you all. xx

Home Start might be worth a look to see if they are in your area. Friend of mine who had depression got some help through them - though that was over a decade ago.

OP, thinking about it again.

The only way I have coped over the years is to have very strong routines and rules that do not change.

So for instance, we do the same thing everyday in the same order

Children are not allowed to leave their rooms before 7. If they do they get put back to bed, even if they have to be put back to bed twenty times. Stair gates on door. Digital clock on wall with minute numbers covered up by a piece of paper that says 7. They can come out of room when the 7 matches the 7.

7-730 is breakfast. Everyone sits at table. No one is allowed to leave table until food finished.

730-745 - Wash face and clean teeth

745 - 8 am Put on clothes.

8am - 830am TV as a reward for doing all the above. Also gives me time to get dressed and stuff ready

830am leave house.

This routine never deviates every day. We have it on schedule on the wall too.

4year olds cannot be assessed/diagnosed as psychopaths ffs! Where do you suggest parents seek advice from exactly?

Lots of really good advice here so not much more to add than what's already has been said except to say that he's still only 4.5, he has two younger siblings also looking for your attention (and a baby and a toddler need a lot of physical attention as standard but he could be mistaking that for emotional attention), you will be run off your feet, space is limited etc. It's a lot.

On one of those parenting programmes I watched, an expert said that in any day even amongst all the worst behaviour, a child will do something worthy of praise even if it's as simple as put on ONE item of clothing without complaining (even if they complained about the rest). Or sat quietly for ONE minute. Or handed something over when asked. No matter how small, whatever it is, find it, notice it and make a big deal about it. Every day. They need to feel praised over something even if they squirm.

Also, amongst the drama and the noise and the annoyance I know you must feel, don't forget to love him. His behaviour might be awful and try you to the limit but he's still just a little boy at nursery. As he's your eldest, sometimes it's easy to think of them of being "old enough to know better" but (as a parent of 3 myself) I find that those expectations never stop if you don't look out for it so basically they spend their lives being "old enough to know better" just because they happen to be the eldest of your bunch. It's a rare parent of 3 (or even 2) who has exactly the same expectations of the youngest one being "old enough to know better" in the same way as the eldest. Try and treat him as an individual 4.5yo rather than relating it to how he's the eldest the 3. It's a mindset that's easy to slip in to.

OP "please somebody help me, I am at the end of my tether I have tried everything"
SENCO "immediate consequences, routine, sitting at a table"
OP "I'm not doing that, it's not fair, I'm going because I'm too upset"

Tsho, that is one of the most fucking ridiculous things I have read on MN for a long time. You clearly are not a doctor as no medical professional ever would suggest a 4.5 year old is a psychopath, let alone one they have never met in the context of an online parenting forum. Get your post deleted and sod off.

FWIW, a diagnosis of ADHD is only made when symptoms have been present for at least 6 months in two different settings - so he would have to be displaying the same behaviours at nursery. It’s also rare to have it seriously considered before the age of 6. Even if it is diagnosed, the guidelines state that parenting courses and intervention should be tried before medication is considered.

Also OP - I appreciate your struggling, and I’m sorry for that.

But why did you take the morning after pill if you were taking the pill? It sounds like you aren’t being completely honest with yourself. Do you have long term, reliable contraception now, like a coil or an implant? Another baby would be a lot more stress for you all.

Also, can you move to a 3 bed in a much cheaper area? Or move in with family in a larger home and rent your flat while you save?

I think you need to be honest with yourself about how you got here, in order to see your route out. Why didn’t you move when pregnant with DC3?

This too will pass. It will get better. I think your boy is reacting to stress and craving your attention. Go to the GP and ask for help

I think you should forget all the advice on here just now except do whatever you need to do to get through the days until you can see the educational psychologist. There seems like there's something more than just naughty behaviour going on with your son. Nursery and school aren't always right my daughter went undiagnosed with Dyslexia until second year of secondary despite me saying every year to every teacher. If it's not something like Autism/ADHD then the GP should be able to refer to cahms for help with his behaviour.

I can't imagine how hard this must be when your so exhausted from breastfeeding and up so much in the night.

I'd speak to GP but have to tried love bombing him? My eldest played up a bit when his brother was born and we eventually realised that time outs etc just made him feel more isolated. Distracting him from bad behaviour and telling him how proud we were / how much we loved him etc when he was good (or even just not being awful!) was the only thing that worked.

Sorry, have just read more of the thread and you've tried love bombing.

Do you have space for a children's table and chairs? Even if it's a folding one? It might be more like the nursery setting and you could put it away when not in use but still keep everyone together at mealtimes.

Can you ask nursery for their weekly schedule and stick to their timing as much as possible for meals and and activities?

It sounds like he has a lot of activities that all carry quite a high sensory load. It might be better to cut down on soft play etc and do less overwhelming things. The long walks are brilliant. You can make them more fun by using Go Find It cards or similar. If there's a weekend forest school near you that he could try instead of some of the other activities that might be worth a go.

What time does he get one to one with his Dad? Can that be increased/made more productive?

His own room sounds like a good idea. If you can get your girls sharing a room (I know it's a long term plan with the baby) and you and your husband take a sofa bed for now then that sounds the most practical.

Batch cooking or slow cooking stuff is great but obviously you need freezer space and time to batch cook in the first place. Is it also worth looking at his diet and reducing sugar, additives etc?

Is it worth speaking to nursery about a referral if you can't get the GP on board? I know our nursery will do that and work closely with the local support services even if the behaviours aren't coming through at nursery.

You should have a health visitor drop in clinic (baby weighing clinic/well baby clinic) so if you take the baby to be weighed then you can collar a health visitor there.

You also need some personal support - you can't do everything on your own and be up 5 times a night and do all the housework and all the parenting...

The Incredible Years - Webster-Stratton is a book that's highly recommended by some excellent practitioners working children with emotional and behavioural difficulties (often with autism, adhd, add, attachment disorders etc) and there is an accompanying course that may be on offer through your local Children's Services or other support services. For example if you're in Edinburgh there seems to be excellent provision.

The Explosive Child and How to Talk so Children Listen are also very highly thought of.