To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

I can't have him in with me as I've got my youngest dd in there and he would do the same thing to her given the chance.

Put your youngster in with DD. They can share and take your ds in with you.

You really do need to keep all the children safe.

Oh and at this age and with this kind of child:
Long term consequences (fill a sticker chart) you might as well whistle into the wind.
Immediate, unrelated consequences (I'll take that toy away) are also very pointless as why bother behaving after it's gone away, you have no further incentive to be good.
Related consequences (you aren't being safe so you have to hold my hand/sit down on this boring step with Mummy; you're arguing over the TV so we'll have to turn it off; I'm really tired because you woke me up so I can't make your favourite breakfast) are the only thing that works for this age/type of child (and frankly most children).

Op, you need a break. You sound utterly, understandably exhausted. Is there any way you can get some time to yourself for a bit. You have pil and parents available.
Once you have a break have a think about how much you love your kids, each one.
Your sons behaviour is awful, challenging, exhausting and can cause you to look at him differently. But, he is only 4. Only 4. He doesn't know the right behavior. He needs to be shown and taught.
My 4.8yo went through a phase of really pushing the boundaries. Previously great at walking and waiting to cross the road he started trying to do it himself but without looking. He was a danger when he was a toddler. He would run off when out, no danger. He has a sense of danger now but still no sense. I had to go back to basics again. Treat him like a 2yo.
For instance when walking down the road he had to hold my hand or be strapped in the buggy. He didn't get to walk by himself because I couldn't trust him not to run into the road.
Ds has to be micromanaged and supervised at all times. You know what, he grew out of it.
Your son is craving attention. He needs boundaries.
Lots of advice on this thread but you may need to take a step back to see your way forward.
Your 2yo also needs you to protect her.
I agree ds sleeps in with dh. 2 daughters in with you. Or put 2 daughters in one room and ds in with you and dh.
But you are going to have to find another bedroom at some point. What is your long term plan?
Hope you can find a way through all this.

Yes i know we are in a 2 bed which is so tight for space. We have the mortgage to pay on this now so money is tied up with this with none to spare to move.
I didn't plan on having more children, I was on the injection when I got pregnant with my first dd, then I was on the pill even took the map and it failed. Both weren't planned, if I had foreseen had bad it was all going to get I probably would of had a termination

This is going to be really harsh but why on earth did you have a third child and bring further demands on your time into the mix especially if your husband is not around much to help ? He sounds deeply unhappy

Well, it's both harsh and totally fucking useless, isn't it? What do you want her to do - send DC3 back? She presumably thought it would be a brief phase, as sibling jealousy normally is.

Sorry cross posted with you. I think leaving him in a room alone while you and your husband sleep with each DD might ramp up his behaviour because he’ll feel rejected and jealous. Could you co sleep with 7 month old in your double bed so you can get to her quickly in the night? Then have other DD in cot in the room with you. Then your husband and son in together?

If you are moving the bedrooms around, then can't you put your husband in with your son? So that he doesn't feel alone and abandoned and more insecure ? and you with both girls?

If noone else is seeing the behaviour (although not from a child, I have full experience of noone believing that a certain person could ever possibly do the things that we say because they are an angel(!!!) when they're nothing of the sort), could you perhaps set your phone or similar secretly to get a recording of it - not to entrap anything but to show that he does act out.

If the nursery are not onside and their dad/gran haven't seen it it must make you feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall. Hopefully with it on video the doors will be opening and not closing in your face :( Good luck , love!

Also toddler proof your home. Get some of those foam door things. Get toddler proof locks on your cupboards. Stairgates won't work for 4yo but give him some take to do. My 4yo responds quite well to be given little task and to help me. Can you get him to help make dinner with you? Even if he's just stirring some lentils and pasta in a bowl next to you.
Have chats with him about how special it is to have be a brother. How sisters are his to look after. Try to reinforce the sibling bond. Get him to help you with looking after her.
Also my two know which toys are theirs specifically and rarely share them but with most of the other toys if they fight over the same one I come over and help them negotiate or show them how to play together. Or ultimately put that toy away.

None of us are perfect. All kids are different. Good luck.

I should add you say reward charts don't work. What is his currency? Sweets, cartoons etc. If you want him to walk beside you and not hit your DD maybe bring some sweets or something else that he would want. Tell him before you leave that he will get the reward at end of journey if he doesn't touch DD. If he goes near her remind gently that he wants his reward and you want him to have it so he must'nt touch her. Play a game of spot the car etc while walking. If he manages to not hurt her say good work now you get treat. If not he gets no reward stand firm. Allow melt down to happen and when finished carry on. Don't remind him of his bold behaviour move on and forget about it.

Another tactic with hitting is to hold his hands before he hits. Get down to his level and offer an appropriate behaviour instead such as we can't hit let's use our hands to build blocks etc.

Hope it helps

OP, you clearly need some help so I hope that you can source some. The school were great at helping me when DC went through a really bad patch behaviour wise.

I do agree with PP, and please don't take this as criticism, but you do need to get your DC to sit up at the table and eat. If DS was allowed to roam around like DD is now, then of course he is not going to sit still in Burger King or wherever.

Actually, it doesn't matter if they sit on the floor and have a picnic, but the main thing is that they sit whilst eating. It is a very basic lesson to learn in life. Your DD will soon sit down if she realises that there is no food unless she does.

I had a lot of help from professional agencies and it was recommended that me and DC sat and ate together, as it is time together.

Magic Time was also recommended, so just 20 minutes together reading a book or playing a game, but every single day. You do need help to do that though, so that someone else looks after other DC while you spend time with each one separately.

DD will grow up to follow DS's example and so on and so on so you really need to get some help now.

The Family Support Worker who helped me, stressed that they need firm boundaries, firm rules set in place, only say things that you can follow through, ie , walk beside me or we go home and if they don't then you do go home.

Also acknowledge that they are angry/upset or whatever and give them a hug and say I understand you are not feeling happy, what can we do about that? It is not a matter of giving in, but acknowledging their feelings, then calmly explaining why they can't have/do whatever. It can be very hard to do when you are at the end of your tether though! but it did work with DC.

School will help your DS, so don't delay him whatever you feel about him being too young. They will soon pick up on any problems too.

It sounds like you are regularly just taking the path of least resistance, which is understandable to an extent as you must be exhausted. You have had some very good advice though.

Start small - all the children at the table together for meals with you sat with them if you normally eat with DH. No screens. They might object at first but will quickly get used to it. I find this is a great time to catch up with the DCs so to speak, chat about school etc without distractions.

Clear, immediate consequences that you follow through on. Pretending to scratch cars? One warning that he will go straight home if he continues. Then do it.

Screaming tantrum because you’re following through on consequences? Tough luck. The tantrums will be far less frequent when he learns you won’t give in.

He needs to be going to bed later than your DD. Spend some time with him doing crafts/games after she’s asleep. Put her to sleep in your bed and move her later if needs be, but he will feel like he’s missing out being sent to bed before his younger sisters.

It is hard but you need to Lay the groundwork now before things get worse. It will be worth it.

You sound really depressed to me.........as the saying goes. Misery breeds misery. Perhaps a touch of pnd ?

Kids aren't daft, they pick up on this stuff.........It sounds like he could be acting out because he knows you aren't fully there. He doesn't feel safe so acts out which makes you more down. It's a vicious circle.

Obviously things can't go on like this but you need to sort yourself out first before you can help him.

I know it's crap, but in your circumstances ( 2 bedroom house and inability to move coupled with the family dynamics) i'd move you and DH and baby into living room ( possible to have sofa bed? ) and give your DD and DS have separate rooms.

That way you can treat it as an exciting positive thing for DS!

" Hurrah DS, you are a such a big boy, you get your own room"

it also treats him and DD fairly.

and hopefully the baby can go in with DD soon when she starts sleeping better.

and it's a bit shit for you and DH, but if you have three kids you will have to prioritise trying to move into a three bedroom atleast. Start planning it now

Since you don't have enough table space, try a blanket. At mealtimes, you all sit around the blanket like a picnic. No wandering around, DS one side of you, DD1 the other. No TV or toys at the 'table', and no wandering around.

It won't be easy, but they'll learn. Lots and lots of praise for sitting and eating nicely. Prepare the food when DS isn't around, but let him help with something just before serving so he feels involved. He could sprinkle cheese onto the plates, for example. Or let him choose dinner occasionally (from a choice of 2 meals in the freezer).

Does your partner spend any time with I’m onhis own. Maybe take him to the park and kick a ball around or something or you leave the other 2 DCs with your partner and take him out somewhere. He needs time with you and your partner one to one. Have you sat him down and talked to him about it. Ask him how he feels and why he is doing it? I hope you can get some ehlp

I think one of the most helpful suggestions on here is to keep a detailed log and probably videos. Nursery might be a port of call if you can't get taken seriously at the GP - at least they might be willing to look at the video and advise.
For what it's worth I really don't think it's a parenting issue - loads of children have loads of parenting styles, many have inconsistency and all sorts and they don't behave like this! But of course the GP isn't going to wave a wand and sort it for you, as pp have said you'll still have to make changes and help your DS manage his emotions and needs.
I agree re mealtimes, it seems you really don't want to do that and I get it that it's not what you want and are used to, but it really might help, and it's probably a choking hazard (and a mess hazard) for them to wander about eating..
Really feel for you, this sounds apalling.

You poor thing. Sounds so distressing and tiring.
I would definitely see a GP when you can. I'm no expert but we've had some of these issues in one way or another with DH's 5yo son and he's undergoing tests as they think he may have ADHD. A close friend of mine has a masters in SEN and works in a specialist school and she has also described a lot of these traits when talking about ADHD.
They children have so much energy and really mixed feelings and emotions that make them confused and angry and this comes out in many different forms as they don't know how to deal with it. Could be a route to pursue just in case.

You could also post in one of the parenting sections, you might get more specific answers in one of the Parenting sections. Give the age of your child and a mention about the behaviour in the title.

tsho tho, that's a really unhelpful thing to write

To me this doesn't sound like your parenting is the issue, you poor thing. You sound depressed, which is completely understandable. Can your turn up at the GP surgery and refuse to leave until they see you? They need to start taking you seriously. Read up on Aspergers and ASHD. Something like respite care would be incredibly helpful

diagnosising 4 year olds as psychopaths!

I had three very close in age and a DH working long hours - even without this behaviour it is exhausting.

Sticker charts and naughty steps never worked with DS at all - minimal impact of DDs but no effect or made it worse.

Best thing I did was take them out as much as possible - groups, park library. If he's running off get one of those backpacks with reins on. I used to enforce older one walking beside pushchair - we'd stop till they were behaving as I liked – waiting them out was awful for me but it made the point to them. However, if this isn't working could scooter or buggy board work - to get him somewhere else than besides the baby.

If they misbehaved – we left or got off busses and walked or we’d walk home if they played up on trains. If they couldn’t sit still for a drink or meal – we’d leave even when that was an arse for me.
You will need to keep them in sight – and step in till this stops – keeping an eye on three kids is exhausting but necessary when young or not able to behave themselves.

Sleeping – can you put the girls in together and have him in with you for a bit – see why he waking?

I’d also keep trying to see HV and GP – plus are there any children centres left near you – they might have some help available. Plus is it possible for your DH to take kids somewhere at weekend – park dad’s group - so you can catch up on some sleep?

OP, you are getting some great advice, don't be oversensitive and take it as criticism of you and your ways, people really are trying to help you to change things for the better.

I agree with MyFriend too, that you may be depressed yourself. I certainly was depressed and it made DC's bad behaviour seem 10 times worse and I simply could not deal with it. As I began to recover and DC began to improve, it all got better at the same time.

DC still has issues, but I can manage them better now. I also follow through on everything. We are currently in a stand off because they won't tidy their room up. I said no room tidy, no scouts bowling on Thursday. They know that I mean it and are going to tidy up tonight.

Also, have you spoken to the doctor about permanent contraception? Because it sounds like the last thing you need at the moment is to get pregnant again.