Re DH smacking DS as a punishment

[Ooodles]

This has been an on going issue for years but right now our youngest DC (5 years old) is going through a phase of being quite difficult and has major tantrums over little things. The naughty chair or being sent to his bedroom is usually the punishment I use. He of course doesn't do as he's told first time, it takes a lot of patience but eventually he gives in takes his punishment says sorry and we move on. Patience isn't something DH has a lot of and when DS throws a major tantrum he always smacks him. I don't believe it helps at all, it only makes DS angrier or more upset and if he listens to DH after that it's only out of fear. DH thinks it's okay because it's only when he's at his worst and is warned. I don't agree at all but he won't change his mind

Ask your husband one question:

If he has an issue at work where a colleague is behaving badly, does he go and hit them?

If no, then why is it OK for him - a taller, stronger adult - to hit a 5 y/o child? If he hit another adult it would be assault and he'd potentially be charged and end up with a criminal record. But it's somehow acceptable when it's a child.

What exactly is he expecting to change by hitting him? Teach him that the only way to resolve a situation is through violence? Make him frightened of his father?

What will he do if your DS tells a teacher at school, I wonder?

Does your DS ever lash out when he's angry? Because if he does that is a direct result of your DP clumping him when he's in a temper. Your DS having a tantrum is no different to your DP lashing out imo, both are a sign of uncontrolled emotions...DS at least has an excuse given that he is still a child.

We had the odd clout off my parents, I have an amazing relationship still with both. But had one of them reacted to what is a child learning to regulate themselves by smacking every time? I wouldn't be in contact with them. I would be sitting him down & telling him to pull himself together & stop being an abusive twat.

OP you're completely in denial. But carry on, it's only a 5 year old little boy and like you, he'll not remember it as abusive. It WILL, without a shadow of a doubt, be rewiring how his brain works, how he views himself and his worth, how he views what is normal in relationships (and if you can't see that you also have had that rewiring as well and that it's currently affecting YOUR thinking OP then I suggest you have a think about that). He WILL be experiencing pain, shock, fear, resentment, powerlessness and humiliation every. single. time. he's smacked by his brute of a 'father'.

But hey, as I said, as you've basically said, just keep justifying it, just keep on allowing it to happen. Which now that you've stated that's how it's going to be, you are just as bad as your 'D'H.

Shame on you if you allow this to continue.

To those querying whether the loophole to allow smacking has been removed - I believe it is imminent in Scotland and out for consultation in Wales.

It is far easier to 'normalise' a fixed behaviour pattern with the privacy of a family home than it is to face into yourself and reckonise, especially in this day and age OP, that ALWAYS smacking your kids is just plain wrong. It is a bad person that behaves this way....that is a hard thing to admit OP, but it's the truth. It have been normal bevaiour in a 1950's but it isn't now. Your DP needs help and he needs to vow to stop this today. Are you not deeply worried that once your baby comes and the whole family becomes sleep deprived this behaviour could escalate big time?

You know what he is doing is wrong. You said this. Why are you still with him?

I can't believe there are women who put up with this. Don't have children if you won't do what is best for them.

Hopefully you stop being so selfish before your next child is born.

Oodles I struggled with DC as a toddler and I said to XH, we are shouting at her because she won't do what she is told, we don't shout at each other and we don't shout at other people so it is not acceptable to shout at DC. At the time I was exhausted as she wasn't sleeping.

I did an Incredible Years course (think it's called something else now) through my local Children's Centre and they showed ways of dealing with children without shouting and smacking using things like time out.

The Leader there said that when you smack, you have lost control of your own temper so you need to find ways of controlling your own temper.

So your DH needs to do a parenting course or read some books on how to deal with your DC in an appropriate way. Your DC will otherwise grow up to smack his DC and so on and so on. Behaviour is a learned pattern.

Our school has started to offer parenting courses, does your school offer anything like that?

The problem is your DH's lack of patience, as much as the childs behaviour.

I hope we follow suit and it becomes illegal in England too. How anyone can justify hitting a child or excusing an adult that does is beyond me.

It’s not wrong as it is legal

Tell him you will be divorcing him and mean it if he doesn't start controlling himself and stop using violence against a child.

It does not work, it just shows that daddy can't control himself and that is very scary for a small child. Not the smacking, the loss of control. A child needs their parents to seem in control of themselves to feel secure.

I cannot see why you would want to be with someone who loses control and takes it out on a little child. If he cannot control himself around them then I wouldn't trust that he could control himself around me. If he says he can then he should fucking stop whacking a defenceless child!

If your husband can't be seen to control his temper, where will your children learn to do the same? I credit my father's temper and physical outbursts as the main reason I grew up with childhood bipolar disorder and later borderline personality disorder - he taught me that the way you deal with negative emotions is to lash out, instead of trying to calm down.

I never hit my DC out of anger - I always try to remain calm on the outside, even if I'm raging inside.

Actually I'm not finished. I don't even know you and I'm actually disgusted by you. How dare you allow this to happen to poor innocent children. Who is protecting them if you aren't?

Things can be wrong and legal. Up until the mid 90s it wasn't illegal for a husband to rape his wife. Still wrong.

You are getting quite a lot of anger directed at you OP and I have said my piece too ...The thing is it is heart breaking for us to picture a little boy and alot of us have small children but in my mind I picture a little boy with a man towering over him angry and hurting him...I actually wept at reading your post and your replies and i will never know you or your family.You have to stop this and stop it now you really do its just so wrong...we ,,all the posters feel the same way I am sure...we can't all be wrong on this...If you cannot stop this go get help from someone who can PLEASE....you have to do this....their is only you who can stop this and protect your children....PLEASE PLEASE do not let this happen ever again....I know its hard when your stressed and tired and maybe have money problems and life stuff in general getting you down but I am begging you please do not let this continue....its a little boy..your little boy and its not right in any way it isnt ......

Since you came in for advice, I think I'd make time when the dc aren't aren't for serious conversation to let you do know how serious an issue this is for you, and that you very much want him to stop hitting your ds.

It might be worth familiarizing yourself with some of the research around how violence in the family home is bad for children whether or not it seems normal to them or you. It is also worth remembering that your dc are not growing up in a society where hitting is normal, so they will feel very different to their peers in the way they are treated (and are far more likely to feel abused than you did).

If he doesn't agree then I would probably leave him over this.

@Ooodles

The problem about posting this here is, all you will do is get a debate which typifies your relationship. Some people think it’s ok, some do not. Some do it, some don’t.

I expect you know the supposed pros and cons of doing it and you’ve made a parenting decision that differs from your DHs way of doing it.

You only have one solution, you need to sit down with DH and explain your strategy for dealing with the behaviour and why smacking isn’t part of that. Not just because you don’t like it, but why it conflicts with what you want to do. Ask him to give you one month to show that you believe your way is more effective and discuss what he is going to do to step away from the situations which lead him to lose his temper, because it seems he is doing it out of frustration and anger rather than to “teach” your child anything. If he is impatient, I expect it also manifests itself in other ways too and he needs to work out how to deal with that. Is he that way with your other children?

If he disagrees and continues to do it, you have a choice to make. Is he the type of person you want to continue raising your children with full time, or is this a deal breaker for you. Only you know the answer.

Look in not going to wade in wearing my judgy pants as plenty of people don’t really know but smacking actually lowers a child’s IQ (he is quite literally having the sense knocked out of him!) and pretty much every psychologist agrees smacking or hitting children isn’t good for them. Please do some research and read around on the subject and make sure this stops!

The law is set to change in Scotland and is being debated in Wales I believe.

Extract from the Scotsman
“The Children (Equal Protection from Assault) (Scotland) Bill will prohibit the physical punishment of children by parents and others caring for or in charge of children. It will give children equal protection from assault by abolishing the existing defences that parents can use to justify the use of physical force to discipline a child. Those backing the bill say a wider aim of it is to redefine what is acceptable in terms of how to punish children and encourage other methods of parenting.“

Your husband is a bully and if he regularly hit you or anyone else there would be no doubt that he was wrong. Why is this different because it is his child? My own childhood was emotionally and physically abusive and I am nc with both parents. I used to believe my mother did her best to protect me but once I had my own children I realised ‘her best’ wasn’t enough. She should have left him but put her own needs before mine.

You say you’ve come on here for advice. My advice is that you need to speak to your husband before another situation arises - pregnant and in pain is no reason to stop being responsible for your 5 year old. No wonder your poor wee boy becomes so distressed. The smacking may not hurt very much physically, but it’s the emotional impact that is lasting. Are you spending any time with your 5 year old? Is he distressed because he’s being left with his abusive father and at 5 he has limited ways of communicating this? You know this is wrong, so please put it right.

Ask your hv, childrens centre, school, gp etc if there are parenting courses locally. I would find a Solihull course or similar and insist he attend. And if he won't, I'd leave him immediately.

Surely it's time the UK mainland followed suit?

I think the law is already set to change in Scotland

“I came here for advice, I know what DH is doing is wrong”

Pathetic. You have had advice and failed to engage with it. And you have allowed your other children to be hit already, as well as continuing to procreate further.

You won’t do anything.

If my DH smacked my child I'd be absolutely devastated and don't know if I could stay.

*SS won't intervene because a father is smacking his child. As long as it falls under the umbrella of 'reasonable punishment' then the authorities and police won't be interested. And if H is smacking within the boundaries of 'reasonable punishment' then he's within the law.

It's shit parenting, but let's not pretend that they will be investigated by SS. Making up bollocks like that will do nothing to help the OP.*

Not true! I had a thread yesterday because my son told the school I hit him and school have reported me to ss. I dont even hit him it was a lie! so yes it does happen.

If a school has any awareness that a child is hit, they will involve SS and SS will visit the family to look into the matter.

No question.

Yes they will as im now referred to SS so if ops son tells the school they WILL refer it. It seems quite odd that its legal but yet you can get referred to SS. Why not just make it illegal then?