People that have been in Jail.

[firsttimedad79]

I was just reading another thread about someone who had been in jail and was surprised by the negativity.

It wasn't mentioned what he had been in for or anything, it just assumed he was a bad person.

I've been inside twice in my youth, but I wouldn't consider myself a bad person. I made mistakes when I was younger but it doesn't dictate who I am now.

AIBU in thinking people automatically assume your bad because you've done time?

There was a couple who were both imprisoned recently for running a 'business' cleaning up used stamps and selling them for a big discount to people who obviously re-used them.

Was it a crime? Yes, it deprived Royal Mail of legitimate income.
Should they have been punished? Yes, ideally having assets seized and otherwise suffering financially for their crime.
Are they the dangerous kind of people from whom society needs to be protected (at great cost to society) and who should therefore be incarcerated for two years? Personally, I'm far from convinced.

Stephen Gough (the Naked Rambler) has also spent time in prison. Yes, his hobby is extremely unusual, but are people like him really the best use of expensive prison resources?

I'm no fan of Jeffrey Archer, but I really can't say I slept much more soundly knowing that he was locked away from society.

There are some people who absolutely need to be in prison - for punishment and to protect society. Some of these people currently aren't in prison.

Even a short prison sentence affects the whole rest of your life - socially and financially - which can effectively end up as a punishment far beyond that due for a relatively minor crime. Non-dangerous criminals would do much better - for themselves and society - with community-based punishments: hard work and temporary embarrassment can be very effective.

It also seems to me that fraudulently and non-violently stealing a large-ish amount of money - especially from a large corporation or government, or 'society' figure (which is, of course, very wrong and to be punished) - or even defaulting on tax payments for whatever reason - is much more likely to result in imprisonment than violently stealing a relatively small amount from an ordinary, non-well-known individual, whose life will never be the same in many afterwards.

Similarly, government, big corporations and influential people can (and do) commit the most appalling crimes and are never locked up. Like with tax - some of the big boys get away with paying virtually no tax at all through creative accounting; whereas if one of their cleaners was also signing on, she would likely be locked up.

A soldier can be imprisoned and have their reputation utterly destroyed for a 'war crime' (and I'm not saying they shouldn't be); however, if you send countless soldiers to their deaths based on what you know all along to be outrageous lies....

Also, political prisoners, standing up for their beliefs - however worthy or misguided those beliefs might be. If they aren't inciting any violence or other non-peaceful protest, do they really belong in prison?

Are we only talking about imprisonment in the UK/West (not that we're immune from imprisoning people on political grounds)?

In summary, I would really want to know why somebody had been in prison and if they were genuinely remorseful and had fully changed their ways before writing them off as a completely bad cause.

Hmm whilst I wouldn't automatically judge I would like to know what they were in for, obviously anything perverse or violent i would keep my distance.

However I know a few people who either served time or been arrested, things from shoplifting to GBH and are very nice people.

It's the bastard who has a respected job, pillar of the community. Someone who has never been in trouble with the law, yet regularly abuses his wife. That's the one I judge!

Rudgie47

@Santaclarita, What do you think? Do you really think there might be thousands of women sexual offenders roaming the streets who haven't been reported?

That was my point. How many women go out to clubs in groups, and grope men then laugh about it? Yes you might not know them, but there's plenty of them. How many hen nights hire a male stripper and grope them? Yet if men look at female strippers they are awful lecherous men to people on mn.

There's plenty of men out there who feel they have been sexuallu assaulted but are too afraid to speak up for fear of being laughed at or not believed. By people like you actually. But you go back to clutching your pearls and thinking women aren't capable of that, it's fine. Men can just continue to feel that way.

However people not giving them a second chance are probably why for some criminals prison is like a revolving door. Some probably use the logic of. I'd give anything to go back and change what I've done, but I can't on. I'll never be able to start a fresh a redeem myself as I'll never get the chance. At least in prison I'll have the security of a roof over my.head and 3 meals a day.
However I'd also fully 110% agree with someone who said or posted, lots of Law abiding citizens have never even been given a first chance, let alone a second.
Its certainly an interesting debate

My best friend has been in jail. It was a none violent crime and she was an alcoholic and suffering from serious MH issues (we met in hospital) at the time

Her childhood absolutely appalling and led to her suffering domestic and sexual abuse.

Prison worked in the sense she is sober and free from her abuser.

I like her and trust her and believe she is a good person.

The other had a very abusive childhood and ended up on the streets, severely mentally ill and was sent to prison for harassing staff in the police station near where she slept rough. No violence but she was pestering them daily and causing a massive nuisance. She needs help and treatment, not prison, but that's not the world we live in. I can't deal with her personally, but I feel very sorry for her. She's not a "bad person", she's ill and her life is ruined.

I'm not trying to excuse people who deliberately and knowingly decide to do unspeakably evil things that have devastating effects on other people's lives; but it's well-known that there are many mentally ill and otherwise vulnerable people who are just thrown in prison and largely forgotten about.

Yes, some of them can pose a danger to others and do need to be accommodated securely, but it's all too common for them to just be thrown under a bus as an easy option.

Our business is more than just a way of making money. We provide a service, we are trusted, we provide for employees’ old age and they buy houses on the strength of their employment with us. School fees, food, transport, holidays, everything that makes up our life and that of our employees comes from our company.

There is no way I would jeopardise that for my family and all my workers by employing someone who has been to prison when I can employ someone equally skilled wh
o hasn’t.

It may have been a youthful mistake, it may have been driven by circumstances, but whatever it was it was still against the law. I just can’t risk it, I have too many people who have never broken the law to look after.

How would employers know wether there employees had a criminal record or been to jail?Assuming it we went a job that needed DBS clearance?

It was ent*

However people not giving them a second chance are probably why for some criminals prison is like a revolving door. Some probably use the logic of. I'd give anything to go back and change what I've done, but I can't on. I'll never be able to start a fresh a redeem myself as I'll never get the chance. At least in prison I'll have the security of a roof over my.head and 3 meals a day.

THIS

When you're told enough that you're useless and you thoroughly believe it yourself - along with the practical side of being unemployable because nobody wants an ex-con (with the notable exception of companies like Timpsons) - you will end up just following whichever path will get you through, however noble or legal, or otherwise.

There is no way I would jeopardise that for my family and all my workers by employing someone who has been to prison when I can employ someone equally skilled who hasn’t.

It may have been a youthful mistake, it may have been driven by circumstances, but whatever it was it was still against the law. I just can’t risk it, I have too many people who have never broken the law to look after.

Nobody would blame you in any way for this - it's the safest and most logical decision to make.

But if you were that person who had made the youthful mistake and was now seen as lifelong damaged/risky goods - how would you feel, knowing that the rest of your life would involve being met by a constant reaction of "Ooh, better not"?

How would employers know wether there employees had a criminal record or been to jail?Assuming it we went a job that needed DBS clearance?

A lot of jobs demand exact dates for employment with no gaps and verifiable sources.

And, DBS can be requested even when not strictly necessary for the post (e.g., some supermarket delivery services ask their drivers for DBS).

There are some difficult cases where people lose jobs as a result of an enhanced DBS even where there is no trial and no conviction.

EDBS can show surprising things unless you apply to have items omitted: Driven to suicide as a result of an enhanced DBS certificate – the problem with the disclosure of police intelligence (I've omitted the link as the site doesn't currently have a security certificate).

[X] got the job and was told that she would need an enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service check. [She was allowed to start work as long as she applied for it immediately.]

Several weeks later her DBS certificate arrived and on it, disclosed under the ‘additional information’ section was her Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) for a public order offence. [X] had received this whilst she was at university and on a night out with three of her fellow students...[X] had a strange feeling [men they passed] might be undercover police officers so jokingly as she walked past them, she made a pig-like noise.

One of them grabbed [X's] arm and told her that she had committed a public order offence by ‘making a pig-like noise in the vicinity of a police officer.’ They told her that if she accepted a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND) and a fine she would avoid having to go to court. Believing that this was her best option, [X] accepted the PND.

[X] thought that was the end of the matter but of course as her enhanced DBS certificate was to show it most certainly was not. When she took the document to her employer, they told her that she’d acted dishonestly in not disclosing the PND and she was instantly dismissed.

You know the rest from the title of the report.

santaclarita I know women who say every time they go out clubbing they get groped. They would be laughed at if they reported it.

I went on a date a year ago with a man who had been to prison, I didn’t know until I met him, he was pretty straight with me and told me how long he had been in for and what for, he seemed like a lovely person but I couldn’t get over what he had done (quite a serious crime). I do believe that people make mistakes and that they can come out the other side and be a better person but I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship with someone who had vomited such a crime that resaulted in 7 years inside.

webuiltthisbuffet it could have easily have been me or DH, our lives were not sheltered, there were drugs at our schools etc. but we chose to say no. DH in particular was brought up on a rough estate and was ridiculed for working hard at school and getting into uni when the kids in his class were making money dealing on the street and “robbing stuff” when they were 12.

We weren’t given a free pass. We had a choice as everyone has.

I'm sorry but you sound like a typical small time criminal that thinks that it's so unfair as it wasn't proper crimes you committed. They were. You are a thief and a cheat and your excuses and tone suggests you still haven't fully atoned or see that you were wrong and deserved prison.

And like others, it depends why they went to jail. A friend ran away from an abusive home at 14 years old and lived on the streets. At 17 she went to jail after a string of shoplifting convictions. She is now in her 50's and has never broken the law since being off the streets. So no I do not judge her at all.

The offence was related to an addiction he has and he entirely deserved the sentence. He is now a highly respected member of his community and works with very fragile, vulnerable people.

That would worry me to be honest. The person I know in prison abused the trust of the vulnerable. I hope plenty of measures have been put in place to monitor this person. Highly respected people often, without or without prison pasts, often can abuse their position. I wouldn’t want someone with a criminal record working with the most vulnerable, unless excellent safeguards were in place.

And what’s all this “made mistakes” malarkey? They weren’t spelling errors, they were deliberate criminal acts. The majority go through life, some in very trying circumstances, and don’t harm others.

When you're told enough that you're useless and you thoroughly believe it yourself - along with the practical side of being unemployable because nobody wants an ex-con (with the notable exception of companies like Timpsons) - you will end up just following whichever path will get you through, however noble or legal, or otherwise.

It’s a rock and a hard place. Whilst I think prisoners should be rehabilitated, the solution just isn’t that straight forward. Companies have to protect themselves and so do people. Unfortunately people with criminal records can only prove themselves in time. If only there was a magical way of proving they were reformed the minute they set foot out of prison...but there isn’t. Perhaps there might be a way but nobody wants to spend real money on prisons. I suspect there are ways to truly support and rehabilitate but they all cost money. The prison system doesn’t work amazingly well.

My boyfriend has been to prison and he is one of the nicest people you could ever meet.

A lot of people would never guess it to be honest.

It was during our relationship and the only people I told at the time was my boss and my family.

Depends on the person, the crime and if they had changed after they were released.

My ex husband was never in prison but has a criminal record due to domestic violence and he is an Architect, wears a suit everyday, lovely car, home etc.

@StrippingTheVelvet you couldn't be further from the truth.

At no stage have I said it was unfair or anything. I did the crime and I did my time.

My question was about people's feelings about people who have been inside.

It seems to me a lot of posters feel that once you have been convicted of a crime and imprisoned you should be punished for the rest of your life by being shunned by others. I obviously feel the opposite, I feel that once time has been served you should be free to get on with your life.

Also yes those were my actual crimes. The first offence I was inside on remand (judges remand it was called).

The second offence was my own stupidity, and yes it very much is an imprisonable offence.