People that have been in Jail.

[firsttimedad79]

I was just reading another thread about someone who had been in jail and was surprised by the negativity.

It wasn't mentioned what he had been in for or anything, it just assumed he was a bad person.

I've been inside twice in my youth, but I wouldn't consider myself a bad person. I made mistakes when I was younger but it doesn't dictate who I am now.

AIBU in thinking people automatically assume your bad because you've done time?

BeOurGuest But even James Timpson says he wouldn’t employ two thirds of the people in prisons and that he’s made mistakes in the past that cost him.

OP of course you have to live with it for ever. The person you harmed, stole from, has to live with it for the rest of their life. You caused that!

People are also looking at “crime” in a very simplistic way. I live/work in London and there are a significant number of homeless women who go to prison for breaching an ASBO. They find somewhere to sleep that feels safe for them. Police move them on but they go back because they don’t know where else to go. So then they get the ASBO but still go back so end up in Court being breached. Magistrates then make a conscious decision to imprison them because they know that this way, said women get into “the system” and have more of a chance to get help. And yes magistrates do often make decisions based on things like this. I have worked on a lot of these cases. Are those women “bad”? They aren’t actively going out and committing a crime. They’re just scared of getting beaten/raped if they try and sleep in an area they don’t know (and women on the streets are often assaulted). So their “crime” is sleeping in a doorway in an area they were told not to.

Also, bear in mind that an abusive, controlling man could walk out, doing everything in his power to avoid paying any child maintenance to the vulnerable mother of his young children who has spent years having it hammered home to her just how useless and pathetic she is.

She's been left in an appalling financial position, gets into mortgage/rent and council tax arrears, is left high and dry by UC and subsequently ends up in prison, her kids being taken away by SS and put up for fostering.

Eventually, she gets out and somehow manages to regain some dignity and starts to scrape her way back to a basic but sustainable existence.

She sees a job that would enable her to make some kind of a home for herself - and maybe even get her kids back.

The employer sees that she's a criminal and thinks "Hmm, once a jailbird, always a jailbird - this one's a wrong'un and a dead loss. I'm not mad, thank you!"

Meanwhile, a very well-presented man comes along and applies for the job. It's nothing to do with the employer if he has kids or not, whether he's ever been married or in a relationship, what his personal financial situation is, any maintenance payments or other commitments - he's never been convicted of a crime, so it's irrelevant and none of their business. He comes across as pleasant and talks a good game so there's no reason at all not to give him the job....

BeOurGuest But even James Timpson says he wouldn’t employ two thirds of the people in prisons and that he’s made mistakes in the past that cost him.

Well yes, this doesn’t remotely surprise me! As I said, companies and people have to protect themselves and that means not employing prisoners because there isn’t a sure fire way of making sure you get the prisoner who actually has changed for the better!

BeOurGuest Exactly. Out of the first 40 prisoners he employed, 30 stole from him, used the shops to deal drugs, had fights in the shops etc. And he vetted them!

He says he’s got better at interviewing now. He’s employed murderers but is fussy about who they murdered. Greggs employ criminals also apparently. Boots are looking to do it if they haven’t already.

I find it interesting how people on here are giving reasons on behalf of their loved ones or friends for the crime they did. I don’t think it helps other peoples’ perceptions of those who go to prison. I have a close relative who went to prison for fraud. Other family members say things like “but he’s an alcoholic” which is true and “he has depression” which is true but neither of those things stopped him fraudulentlytaking money from his clients and living up the high live. He was greedy and selfish. He hurt those he stole from and he hurt his family deeply. Yes, he has changed but his terrible behaviour continues to affect those around him.

You didn't answer who owned the phone? And was it the first time you had stolen something? Because that would have been massively unlucky!

Also yes those were my actual crimes. The first offence I was inside on remand (judges remand it was called).

It's funny how you swerved my question re kind of theft though OP.

And the thing that's annoying me (and probably others I imagine) is that you are minimising your offences. You were remanded because either the offence you carried out was aggravated and you were a risk to the public, or because you were deemed to be a flight risk. You were released because the amount of time you had spent on remand was equal to or longer than the sentence you received. You were still sentenced to prison because of the severity of your offences - either you had committed 20+ petty theft offences or you were charged with aggravated burglary, street robbery, commercial burglary of a significant value or aggravated commercial burglary.

I've never met anyone in prison who has simply stolen a mobile phone from a public place, on their first offence.

I do believe that good people can be caught up in circumstances that lead them to commit a crime. I also think 'bad' people can be rehabilitated and turn their lives around. I know so many people who engaged in petty shop lifting as teens but were just lucky to not get caught. At the end of the day theft is theft whatever the value of the goods and whether or not you get caught. I don't believe these are bad people, they were just bored and stupidly believed that it was a victimless crime (doing the whole fight against capitalism, most only took from large companies etc shite). As much as I disagreed at the time with it - and refused to go shopping with my friends for fear of guilt by association!!! I am still great friends with these girls and consider them good people.

I know of only person who has been to prison, he used to live locally to me and I really like him. He was driving too fast one evening coming into the village and he went round a bend and went slightly into the lane of an oncoming car due to his speed, causing a crash. The guy in the other car was his cousin as it happened (small rural village) and he died. It was so so sad. Obviously ripped the family apart forever. The guy got 2 years - many felt nowhere near long enough - but to be honest I felt so sorry for him. He will never be the same again. He moved to a new area so I don't see him much now but he is a shadow of his former-self, several years later. I genuinely feel for this guy. So many people speed and get away with it, he was unlucky in a way, in the worst possible way. He has to live with his actions for the rest of his life. I think he was around 21 at the time, no alcohol involved.

There is no such thing as "good people" and "bad people". Humans and the world are not so black and white.

But I get why it makes people feel safer to pretend it's possible to categorise and identify all the "bad people" and stay away from them.

For me it would depend what the offence was, how old you were ie were you very young, how long ago it was, and whether you were now rehabilitated.

webuiltthisbuffet it could have easily have been me or DH, our lives were not sheltered, there were drugs at our schools etc. but we chose to say no. DH in particular was brought up on a rough estate and was ridiculed for working hard at school and getting into uni when the kids in his class were making money dealing on the street and “robbing stuff” when they were 12.

We weren’t given a free pass. We had a choice as everyone has.

I completely take the point that it's a choice, whatever your circumstances and upbringing - although nature comes into play as well as nurture. You sound like a rational, eloquent, intelligent person, but what about children who aren't naturally that way, who are then exposed to a toxic environment from a very young age; maybe not just unwisely or even neglectfully parented but actually taught and encouraged from nursery age into a criminal mindset?

Nevertheless, what do we do with people who make that choice anyway? Do we just accept that they're 'bad 'uns' and resign ourselves to shutting them away again and again?

Some people are given endless help and yet persist in making bad choices - and these people quite probably will unavoidably end up with a lifetime in and out of prison (or permanently in, depending on seriousness of crimes).

However, I know people who made those bad decisions, didn't end up in prison as it happens, but could easily have done. They were shown love and understanding, as well as being given practical help to face up to those bad choices and to overcome their problems and addictions - and they're now thoroughly kind, genuine, decent members of society.

When someone commits a murder, they’re a murderer. They’re not a murderer last Tuesday or when they were 30, they are a murderer. They killed someone.

When someone steals something, they are a thief. They stole, they are a thief. They can never unsteal whatever they nicked, they are a thief for life. They might not have stolen for a while, they might not steal again before they die, but they are still a thief.

It wasn't mentioned what he had been in for or anything, it just assumed he was a bad person

I'm a bit puzzled by this. Can you tell me what sort of thing a good person does that results in them being placed in prison?

Are burglars, thieves, bank robbers, shoplifters (minus those doing it for starving children but then why not use a food bank), fraudsters, rapists, murderers, those using violence against another person, kidnappers, child molesters, not bad people?

I've had some family in jail. Other than one who should have gotten far longer and I've no idea why she didn't (situation involved drugs and child endangerment that happened again), the rest would very much fall under the 'do not attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity'. They've all grown since and it has nothing to do with their current character.

I've mixed feelings on after prison life. Maybe there needs to be more screening and options for certain prisoners, like the one I mentioned above, who still seem to be a threat at the end of their sentence (and maybe there is, I don't know), but I agree for the most part that, especially for non-violent crimes, it should be in the past unless there are reasons otherwise like many repeats.

I still feel sad for one foolish family member who got caught up with his friends in stuff (non-violent though involved a threat that couldn't be done, not theft) that resulted in him being left with a 9th-grade education, not allowed to return to education after his sentence and had to wait out until he was old enough to get his GED and still struggles so much. Like, he did the crime, he did the time, but it was almost 20 years ago and really he's still being punished & I feel bad for him as he had so much potential, and is just stuck for what his child-self did. I wish things would be better for him, though even better had they been better for him 20 years ago so it didn't happen.

There is no such thing as "good people" and "bad people". Humans and the world are not so black and white.

But I get why it makes people feel safer to pretend it's possible to categorise and identify all the "bad people" and stay away from them.

Brilliantly put.

If we could learn to ignore what people are and focus on what they choose to do, we'd be much better as a society. This approach also places responsibility firmly on to the people who might make those choices - both giving them the understanding that they can escape and aren't inevitably beholden to being a criminal and also taking away any excuses they might make that they're a bad boy/girl and so have no alternatives.

@Changedun

I've been stolen from twice, once by a pickpocket in London and the other time my rucksack was nicked whilst I was in Africa, I lost £50 in cash and, far worse, my address book. It was unpleasant at the time, but it's just a distant memory now, not something I have to live with for the rest of my life. So theft doesn't necessarily damage victims forever. (I haven't been burgled or mugged, though, those crimes would take a lot longer to get over, I'm sure.)

Other crimes do leave victims permanently damaged. I suffered SA as a child and I do have to live with that for the rest of my life. (Nobody went to prison for that at all, though.)

Some crimes leave victims permanently damaged, but by no means all do. It depends on where you stole the mobile phone from, OP? If there was violence involved (street robbery) then you really need to stop minimising it.

I obviously feel the opposite, I feel that once time has been served you should be free to get on with your life.
That go for Pead is, murders, rapists, acid attackers if they say it was a youthful mistake?

do not attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity

I don’t think anyone is saying that all those in prison are malicious. Some are stupid. All are criminals.

I wouldn't think you are a bad person but I wouldn't associate with you either, because from experience prison results from bad lifestyle choices

^This

When someone steals something, they are a thief. They stole, they are a thief. They can never unsteal whatever they nicked, they are a thief for life. They might not have stolen for a while, they might not steal again before they die, but they are still a thief.

I agree that people need to be punished according to the seriousness of their crimes - which very well may necessitate their being imprisoned for the rest of their lives.

What if the 'theft' was withholding your council tax because you were left in dire financial circumstances through no fault of your own - and had to choose between paying it or rent to keep a roof over your children's heads?

What if you had to flee a violent man and the only refuge you could find was too far away for you to be able to keep your job, so you ended up stealing some basic groceries to feed your kids? We all know of people being hung out to dry by the UC fiasco.

Would you consider these people forever criminals with no hope of ever being worthwhile members of society again? Should all crimes just carry an automatic life sentence, then?

Does this only apply to crimes, though? What about other bad things? Would you accept people spitting "Liar!" at you for the rest of your life because you once told a lie that might have seriously hurt or upset somebody?

Most of us will never commit appalling crimes, but surely we all make bad and sometimes selfish choices? Should we all be described as if what we once did is what we forever are, no matter how remorseful we might be?

Should we all be described as if what we once did is what we forever are, no matter how remorseful we might be?

That is exactly how society judges you.

The person in the office who takes credit for your work, the person who pushes herself in front of you on the bus to get a seat, the parent who makes excuses for their child’s behaviour...

You are what you are and people see it and react accordingly. Some might not care, some might take offence, some might not dare to confront, some might.

If you tell a lie, you’re a liar. I doubt people will spit the word at you for life, but they’ll know you’re a liar, know you can’t be trusted.

When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.

I knew a lad who was a colleague who went to prison for repeat joy riding at 16 - he learnt to read & write in young offenders then a local well known paint factory whose paint is beloved by MN gave him a job & he's never looked back.

That same paint firm employed several ex offenders (all kinds of crime) most managed to turn their lives around - it was quite good pay as well.

If only other ex offenders would get a chance then maybe there wouldn't be so many homeless & reoffending?