Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

@OyOy no biriyani is not muslim! Food tends to not have a religion. It's eaten all over India and Pakistan but has is thought to have been brought to India by the Mughals.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-36423412

indiacurrents.com/tracing-the-history-of-biryani/

Aww don’t worry about it, you were not being racist he was just a rude person. I would get your ghee and ingredients from elsewhere in future. On a side note are you thoroughly washing your rice in tepid water before cooking???

depending on the culture it might be a case he doesnt know to cook at all, maybe felt a bit defensive about that.

Nonsense. You weren't being racist. The context was appropriate. It's not like you walked up to a brown-skinned stranger on the street and asked for their curry recipe.

I come from a minority group and am quite used to being the go-to person for questions. When people ask a daft or presumptuous question I generally laugh and respond "I'm the wrong person to ask". They generally get very embarrassed. If I have to spell out that they've assumed that because I am X I am also Y/know about Y/do Y, the reaction ranges from embarrassment to interest to disbelief to anger at me.

If you want to teach unthinking racists to change their ways, I think you're far more likely to succeed with good manners and consideration than with rudeness.

Making an assumption isn't necessarily racism.

In this case I wouldn't have said it was.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume someone in his environment would have some tips. He may never cooked in his life but family members may have done and cultural experiences may have been passed down to him.

And the fact you are feeling terrible shows you weren't being racist - a deliberate act to harm a minority group.

But is asking “I don’t suppose you have any tips” really an assumption? It’s a gentle maybe style question to someone who is of the same country as the type of food and who sells food.

Honestly, a ‘no’ could have sufficed from him.

I don't think you were being racist but I guess it was an assumption

It's easy though , my colleagues are predominantly Indian and we were talking about the fact that majority of Indian restaurants in the area we work were Bangladeshi which wasn't indicative of all kinds of Indian food necessarily but I had no idea until they were telling me this as they are not Bangladeshi

However no need for that reaction, I'm Welsh and love rarebit but have no idea really how to make it (no it's not just chews on toast ) but I wouldn't be offended if someone asked me

However as a friend of mine pointed out I am not someone who has experience racism and she ha reminded me that when you have it can make you a little quick on the trigger , I have no doubt being treated badly for the colour ofbmy skin or religion would make me a bit prickly to say the least

It's his choice to be offended and react, I quite agree...it's also my choice where to shop.

Wow. I didn’t notice this remark from OP when I made my previous comment. I guess she’s determined she’s not unreasonable at all. To characterise someone pointing out racism as “rude” is breathtakingly obtuse.

RhiWrites But this wasn't racist? OP asked for tips based on a product she was buying from a shop the member of staff worked in.
Faced with the response she got I don't blame her for taking her business elsewhere.... this is far from "obtuse" it's a logical response.

Is biryani a regional dish?

I'm told it's eaten all over, though many believe it originated in Persia (Iran) and arrived with the Mughal invaders

That said, even asking the question caused a (lighthearted) argument among a group of Indian folk, when each insisted theirs was the only best recipe ... I learned some interesting Indian insults that day

Really? No OP, I don't think YABU at all, in fact I think he was. Clearly has no clue of customer service and I would avoid that store and warn others.
We have a store similar in our area run by an Indian family and they go out of their way to be helpful, they even know my DS has allergies and suggest alternatives. Because of this, they are my first thought when buying fresh ingredients for cooking Indian food, and when anyone asks in local gossip groups they are always recommended by myself and others.
Honestly, don't over think it, he was bloody rude.

If you want to teach unthinking racists to change their ways, I think you're far more likely to succeed with good manners and consideration than with rudeness

Beautifully put, JellySlice I've rarely seen the point in flinging insults, and IME "have you considered ..." and "don't you think ..." tends to bring better results than using them

Even with genuine, hideous racists who have no wish to learn, there's little to be gained by descending to their level

If you want to teach unthinking racists to change their ways, I think you're far more likely to succeed with good manners and consideration than with rudeness

Yes always be polite and good humored regardless how pissed off you are about once again having to laugh off such remarks

I don’t pull up sexism with a coy head tilt and a sweet laugh maybe I should as I might be taken more seriously

I don’t pull up sexism with a coy head tilt and a sweet laugh maybe I should as I might be taken more seriously

Nobody has said that.

I’ve been around people who said sexist things due to my hobby. I don’t respond with rudeness or aggression, just calmly point out the issue with what they’ve said. I find it far more effective.

He was angry

Op didn’t mention aggression

I wasn’t referring to the OP. I was responding to your comments including “regardless of how pissed off you are”.

He is allowed to be angry he allowed to be pissed off with these kinds of remarks and he is allowed to pull someone up

And thankfully he is unlikely to feel the fear that many South Asian people did in the 70’s of getting a good beating for ^stepping out
if line^

Or do we go along the lines of those who make a remark should choose if others are offended or not

The op expected a different response and didn’t get it she pulled up he was annoyed and pointed out why

Really isn’t it he right thing to do is think well I did make an assumption and he probably gets fed up if it rather than wanting validation (in MN of all places) of not being a racist or making assumptions based on skin colour - fuck if that doesn’t sum up privileged don’t know what does

I think it was perfectly reasonable of you to ask for tips at the till. Why not? I sometimes comment on what I’m making to till assistants regardless of their apparently ethnic origin.

I would have abandoned my stuff at the till and walked out if I had been spoken to like that.

He just sounds like a grumpy old man.
I bet if you asked his wife she'd be delighted to give you a recipe.

It will certainly put customers off.

It's no more unreasonable an assumption than thinking that long haired guy who works in the guitar shop might be able to recommend a first guitar.

People just love to virtue signal don't they...

OP's behaviour doesn't come across racist, just made wrong assumptions. Maybe a bit naive.

But racism exists on structural and institutional levels. The owner of the shop reacted that way because of structural racism.

People who have experienced racism throughout their lives will become sensitised to race/cultural-related comments and it can be perceived as racism even if the intention isn't.

So, OP may not intend to be racist, but it's possible the owner has experienced racism anyway. Neither is wrong and both are a bit hurt.

It is unfortunate. Structural racism doesn't help anybody.

How did she assume anything?

“I don’t suppose” Is not the same as ‘You must have”

Honestly. Indian man selling Indian food. I don’t suppose you have any tips on cooking a meal that uses these ingredients. No assumption, no nastiness, and calling it racism really minimises what everyday racism is.

It’s not racist and is hardly worth discussing. He was probably having a bad day or annoyed with the conversation/question for other reasons.