Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

Moussemoose has it! Not sure why it's a "stereotype" that most people in India (and this guy has relatively recently arrived) eat Indian food, including curry. More of a fact I'd say. Of the Indian people I know, some are cooks and some aren't, but all are proud of their culture and food. It's not some embarrassing secret that Indian people cook and eat Indian food.

I would go as far as to say that if an older couple has arrived from India to the UK just a few years ago, they definitely eat Indian food at home some or all of the time. It would be racist (and weird) to think they completely ditched their normal diet and culture the day they arrived (why would they? it would be assuming white british is better somehow).

Having said that, I wouldn't have asked him. Even if he had a great recipe, it would have taken ages to write down so it have been a bit weird.

I have asked the very cockney guy in my local shop for Italian recipes several times because I know his parents and wife are Italian so it is his origin. He loved talking me through them. I think his reaction was rude and over the top. He could easily have said ‘I don’t really cook Indian food’ or ‘byrianis are not a dish from my local region’ or ‘my wife does all the cooking’ or anything pleasant. My Indian colleague at work happily shares curry recipes with me and is not offended at all when people assume she eats curry at home. She doesn’t always eats it but they have them from time to time. You don’t sound racist at all to me and I am sorry he upset you.

And think of it the other way round, if he had actually asked you how to make gravy as part of a pleasant chat at the till, would you have been offended or felt like a victim of racism?

My Indian colleague at work happily shares curry recipes with me

So did many of my employees, Mummadeeze. I even - gasp - asked for tips occasionally, and we all laughed together about the mess I might otherwise have made of it

Several very kindly asked me to their weddings, and I dared (brace yourself!!) to ask advice on what to wear. This caused a general and very enjoyable fashion debate, but just think ... they could so easily have taken me to an employment tribunal

Best chance of preventing police repercussions would be to apologise in person and try and get on the shopkeeper's good side.

You may be able to curry a favour... 👳‍♂️

Not sure why my phone's pasted a 'male' symbol.

OP this was not in the least racist. Just take your business elsewhere.

If I visit Hobby craft and ask for advice on a craft kit, it is because the staff there could be reasonably expected to a)have some product knowledge and b) possibly have tried the product themselves. This does not mean I believe them to be Banksy on the weekends.

This man works in a shop "known for its Indian speciality items" and reacted badly when asked about one of their products. This has nothing to do with race -Biryani was after all created for British tastes!!!!

You asked him about things that he sells whilst in his shop. He was being an arse. You aren't racist, don't worry. Some people just have a big ol' chip on their shoulder and love to get offended.

And would you have been offended if he did indeed ask you how to make gravy? No, of course not, because you're a normal person.

Oh no a brown man points out that op has made an assumption and that assumptions based on how a person looks can be racist

And then has the audacity to call her out on it - calling out a white woman he needs to be publicly flogged

The assumption was based on where he worked tho, not his colour

Sounds like you made an assumption based on his race. He might be short tempered as he might experience the full spectrum of racism on a daily basis and your comment tipped him.

You’re not a bad person, but no harm if it’s made you reflective on assumptions.

That's not racism

That's a reasonable assumption that a store owner/employee knows his/her stock

And he is a very rude employee/store owner

Yeah right

If he was a white blonde blue eyed guy she would be asking him if he knew how to make a byriani

Of course

Brown man know your place always be amused by a white woman’s assumptions and giggle politely

You know what we expect south Asian people to be compliant and act bemused by assumptions or friendly racist banter I am glad the younger generation are saying fuck this and calling it out more. it’s uncomfortable but there you go it’s no where near as uncomfortable as having assumptions made about you all the time day in day out because of your skin colour

Cultural differences should be celebrated. The assumption the OP made about this man from India wasn’t a negative one. As someone of Oriental heritage I am proud to be asked about my background culture that others may not know about and happy to share that insight. Especially to someone who is looking to further their understanding of other cultures. That I can’t cook authentic oriental food is beside the point. If we refuse to acknowledge the positive things that make people different and avoid talking about them, we will have a far blander approach to our environment and ‘dumb down’ our cultural awareness.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed you are now making assumptions she wouldn’t of asked the man if he was white?

She didn’t ask a random on the street or a work college or even a friend she asked the man who worked in the speciality shop that sold the products to make an Indian dish. The man was rude, he could of answered he didn’t know without being a prick about it. He made it about race, OP didn’t

You said you wouldn’t have asked him if he was white - so there was definitely a racist element there.

I thought there was huge variety in Indian cuisine. Different regions with different specialties? So, your question might have been like asking someone in the The UK how to cook French food. I think it’s assumption that’s a bit annoying.

A PP earlier said it’s like going to an Asian supermarket and asking about a Thai curry. Asia is huge and unless you know the owners really well, you might not know their background or if they can cook a certain dish. (You said they were Indian and moved here 10 years ago, but are you certain of the region and the cuisine?)

OP, you say it’s got a couple of aisles of Indian food/ingredients. But, the rest of the shop sells different stuff right? I can’t imagine myself going in and assuming that the owners know how to make a certain meal, especially when the products I’m buying are only from a small part of the shop. It seems weird to me. Bit different from a Polish food shop where all they sell is Polish food and you know they’re Polish too.

But, I’m used to these small assumptions and get them all the time. It’s tiring. Just take it as a learning experience so you don’t make assumptions again. Keep it in mind for the future.

you are now making assumptions she wouldn’t of asked the man if he was white?

She admitted this herself, but everyone is conveniently ignoring it.

This has nothing to do with celebrating cultural differences

He was pissed off that she made an assumption about him because of his ethnic background does he have to keep quiet about that

He has already informed her that he didn’t know about the items she was buying

It’s uncomfortable being pulled up but you can choose to learn from it or moan that it wasn’t fair which the op is doing boohoo

It’s uncomfortable being pulled up but you can choose to learn from it or moan that it wasn’t fair which the op is doing boohoo

I agree. There’s a lot of calling the guy a snowflake and saying he shouldn’t have reacted in that way.

Plenty of people on the thread saying that ‘you can’t talk to anyone anymore’. I think it would be fine if people, like the OP, had a situation like this and chose to learn from it. Perhaps realised where they had made an assumption and accepted their mistake.

But instead, people don’t want to be considerate. They don’t want to have to think about anything and certainly don’t want anyone pointing out where they might have been a little ignorant.

Is biryani a regional dish?
Maybe, like Chicken Tikka Masala, it’s become a generic UK hybrid.

Yes you were being racist, a brown man told you this and you were so butt-hurt you ran to a predominantly white middle-class internet forum to get validation.

And as a 'foodie' you should know that India does not churn out generic food.

Biriyani isn't even specific to India - it's a Muslim dish!

Perhaps you touched a nerve maybe he doesn't or can't cook.

However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

This right here is what makes it racist. OP, you meant well. But you treated this man differently to a white man because of his race. That is the essence of racist behaviour. Racism isn’t just someone shouting racist abuse. It includes thinking that all Indians make curry, that black people have good rhythm and so on.

This is the second thread in a week in which someone has sought reassurance from a predominantly white audience that they weren’t being racist. And as in the other thread people were happy to give that reassurance. No one wants to be thought racist.

I’m sorry @Montagu90 but as a mixed race person I’m calling this as racist. And the Indian man told you straight out it was racist.

Instead of believing the nice white people, believe the Indian man. And in that way you can internalise your mistake and not make it again.

I actually think that erasing a racist action and telling yourself it wasn’t racist is worse than making it in the first place. Everyone’s a little bit racist, it’s cultural. You have to learn not to be. This is how you learn. Painfully.

This person isn’t the shop owner though is he, he is working on the till. My local supermarket stocks a couple of aisles of ‘asian’ foods, but I wouldn't seek out anyone looking vaguely Indian to share a recipe on those goods. It isn’t really normal to ask shop assistants how to cook a meal is it?

It's a local shop right run by indians with ingredients that aren't found in most supermarkets? I don't think it was a racist question. I say that as a brit of indian heritage who is often asked about indian food and reply with i will ask my mum.
The guy is probably just rude.