Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

I wouldnt consider that recist at all ! Am greek if you asked me how to make mousaka i would t be offended ! For gods sake some people just take offence at everything !!

The posters on here calling him rude/bad tempered - reminds me of when I get told to "cheer up love" by strangers in the street when I've got my resting bitch face on.

My (Indian) DH does all of the cooking at home. He doesn't cook Indian food. If you asked him how to make a biryani, he would get ever so slightly annoyed, but he's grew up in the UK, so would hide it under a veil of passive-aggression.

I think he was oversensitive. So what if you made an assumption; we all do. I'm sure he does too. You weren't racist.
He's probably sexist and gets his wife to do all the cooking, hence not being able to cook.

And to not even be able to talk about culture when you know for a fact someone has lived in a country for fear of being accused of racism is so sad.

My best friends husband is from a South American country and if I asked if he had any tips for cooking arepas he would probably make me some. And if he didn’t have any, he would just say no; not have a go and accuse me of racism.

I’m really boggled by this actually. Where does it end? Because to be totally safe the same should apply to all people of all backgrounds ethnicities and skin colour, and would severely restrict conversation, sharing and learning.

She asked an Indian man selling Indian food if he had any tips on cooking a Biryani. That’s all.

Next OP will be accused of cultural appropriation for wanting to make a dish not from her heritage

@sahknowme

If someone asked your DH that with no other context it could reasonably be inferred it is asked based on his appearance and therefore stereotyping.

But if someone who knows he does all the cooking / enjoys cooking asks it, would he be similarly annoyed? What if he was asked ‘have you any tips for making a chili” instead of ‘biryani?

It’s so easy to assume the worst of people instead of actually, maybe they just want to find common grounds and that food/heritage is a popular one to engage on as we all have both.

@Charley50 you are clearly white.

Also he didn't call the OP racist he just explained why sterotying people was a bad idea.

The OP was the one who presumed she was being racist and is trying say she isn't by asking a predominantly white forum to agree with her that she is not.

He said she made racist comments which seems a very strong statement

@WetWipesGoInTheBin - I am of Mediterranean heritage and can often get confused for any Mediterranean background, or sometimes Jewish. People often ask me questions having made an assumption about me based of where they perceive I'm from. And assumptions about even knowing where my parents are from. I couldn't give a shit, I just presume they're trying to be friendly. I don't have a dig at them in response.

Are we now going to now pretend that Mediterranean looking people get the same amount of racist abuse and assumptions made about them

Right ok then 🙄

The posters on here calling him rude/bad tempered - reminds me of when I get told to "cheer up love" by strangers in the street when I've got my resting bitch face on

As I said I’ve suffered a lot of casual sexism from my hobby. It never helps to be rude to someone making comments. I at least try and educate as to why they’re wrong!

"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."

No you were not being racist although you may have been a "victim" of unconscious bias which is incredibly difficult to adjust or change. To fight against unconscious bias you need to question it at the point of decision making (or asking a question in this caee" which is very difficult to do every second of everyday. I fall foul of it all the bloody time now I am aware of it!

Tbh if you get offended by a request as whether you know how to make a good curry, you need to give yourself a talking to. Especially if you work in a shop that sells Asian cooking ingredients!

You weren't trying to be horrible to him, or violent or to discriminate against him because of his colour/race. It was just a question and he was really over sensitive.

If he had said that to me I probably would have said "well you do work in a shop that sells Asian cooking ingredients so I think it is you who is making the assumption here". You could equally look on the fact that you didn't assume that as he was a man that he wouldn't know how to make a curry as a good thing!

.

At worst you were engaging in some unconscious stereotyping, OP, but what you said was also relevant to the store you were in and the purchases you were making. I've engaged in some food talk with the cashier at a local Asian grocery - I'm sure it's pretty common regardless of customers' ethnicity.

Enthusiasm Not sure how you got that from Charley50's post.

However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

Your question, by your own admission, was racially motivated. Is it the same as joining the KKK? Of course not, but you still altered your treatment of a stranger only because of their race.

You're not Hitler or anything, but you were insensitive on this occasion.

I cook all the curries at home

My partner is Asian but she can't/won't cook.

No one ever asks me for curry tips in our specialty Asian food store

People often ask the bird, and she thinks it's funny, owing to aforementioned relative kitchen skills

Yes it's an assumption on your part but not an offensive one.

Matey sounds like a dickhead

The only part where racism could be claimed to come in to play, is that even in a similar specialty shop, if the server had been white you wouldn't have asked. It would be reasonable to assume that in a specialist shop, anyone working there would have knowledge of the stock they sell, whether it was clothes or food. I am regularly asked juts by dint of being an ex pat Scottish about how to cook haggis and black pudding. Also to recommend whiskeys- love haggis, and know naff all about whiskey, which is what I tell people- but I can't say I'm offended they ask. I don't assume the people asking are displaying casual racism, but an assumption based on nationality which is either correct, or not. I'd rather juts tell them that I don't like whiskey than sulk about being asked.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed - where did I say that I get racial abuse?

Of course YANBU

His wife probably does the cooking. but you would expect him to have some idea of how good is the stuff he is selling, wouldn't you?

I might not shop there again, if it can be avoided.

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed - but yes I get assumptions made about me based on my heritage (or perceived heritage) ; that I cook and eat Greek food a lot (I don't), that I can speak Greek. (I can't), that I come from a solid family background (I don't).

Yanbu, I was listening to an interview with a butcher the other day and they were asked " do people ask you how to cook certain meats the best way? " his reply yes it helps to have a certain basic knowledge.
As far as I can see that just makes him a helpful butcher

Making assumptions about people is something all races, sexes, ethnicities, age, do. We are all 'guilty' of it at times. An assumption about white English people is that they all stick their elderly parents in old people's homes, for example.

We also talk about different things to different people! Why wouldn't we? We're not all robots who have had the same experiences and upbringing, the same values and limits of what is acceptable in conversation.

Sorry I am half English white, didn't mean to be offensive, but whenever you read articles about care of the elderly around the world, they start with the assumption that English don't care for the elderly as good as other cultures. (I don't believe that to be true).

No you didn’t say you get racial abuse

But the perception of Mediterranean people is not the same and people’s assumptions are not the same

Many assumptions are more positive though, like being able to cook!

The same as what? I don't know what you are talking about.