Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

I was reading a thread the other day about a woman who was having problems with a co-worker and someone said 'FFS why don't people just talk to each other anymore??' Because of this thread. That's why. You think you're being friendly asking a business owner about a product he sells from an area he's from and suddenly you're a racist who apparently should have been reported to the police and made to apologise. Stop shopping in the High Street OP. Go online, find recipes with great reviews, buy the ingredients you can have delivered to your home. Saves any further police reports 'messy' communication problems.

It is the logical outcome.

Jesus Christ I have heard it all now. OP do not be upset about this. If you sell 2 rows of specialist Indian spices you can expect to be asked about them. It's the same with any specialist food shop. Agree he was deflecting.

So if I go over and ask my neighbour who is Indian, if she knows how to make a good curry and I outright said cause I know your Indian I thought you might know exactly what I needed to make a perfect curry she should call the police and have me done for being racist?,

He overreacted and was rude. But tbh if you had asked my dad he would have responded in the same way

I think @Pachyderm1 has articulated it brilliantly

Don’t feel bad. He was out of line and very rude! You didn’t say anything out of line. I always ask for cooking tips. Nothing wrong with that. Sounds like he was having his period

He was just being a misogynist prick probably - doesn't cook himself - it's not a race thing at all, just he 'covered' himself by trying to say it was
because he was "Indian".

Although if he had said - dunno, my wife does all the cooking, I'm always at work - he could also have been criticized for that too.

So, don't worry about it, just like him, you can't pleez everyone.

I read it all, thank you, to the pp who queried otherwise. And my thoughts remain the same, you were not accused. He made an observation that you assumed he knew about cooking because of the way he looked. And you did. That is racist.

This is interesting. I understand that racial stereotypes, whether positive or negative, can be harmful. What I am not clear on, is that assuming someone who is known to be Indian is more likely to know about Indian food/culture/music/whatever than someone who is not is a racial stereotype. Surely it is axiomatic? In fact, to suggest that people who are not from India or who do not have Indian heritage can have as much insight into Indian food/culture as those that do is a racist assumption. It is inappropriate to ask an Indian man in the street for his biryani recipe because, firstly, you are assuming that he is Indian, purely based on his appearance and, secondly, because you are assuming that Indian people have nothing better to do than educate non-Indian people about their culture while going about there private business. Neither of these apply in the OP's case, since she knows that he is, in fact, from India, and he works in a shop selling ingredients for Indian-style cookery and was at work when he was questioned about Indian cooking.

I too have used many specialist ingredient shops in my time. Similarly specialist crafting shops... ditto horse tack shops

I often ask staff about the specialist goods on their shop floor. I have never had anything but friendly advice and enthusiasm.

I wouldn't assume that the someone could cook a dish because of the colour of their skin, though.

I think if you'd asked about the ingredient...and its suitability for xyz dish that would NOT have been racist - I go to specialist shops because they generally are extremely hot on product information. But to ask for tips on making a particular dish was , I think.

Racism surely implies some sort of discrimination or prejudice, or else it's not racism

No - think everyday sexism

What made the store a specialist Indian cooking store? I cook Indian food a couple of times per week (no biryani tips sorry) and can't think of a single ingredient I've ever had to go to a specialist store for; everything I've ever needed has been widely available. I know you mentioned ghee specifically but I normally get that at major supermarkets too.

Either way, I probably wouldn't assume that someone working in a grocery store knew how to cook. I do feel his reaction may have been a bit strong, but maybe he gets it a lot.

I'm not sure it's racist to assume an Indian person might be more knowledgeable about Indian food. Pretty much all my Indian colleagues from previous jobs made Indian food at home.

OP it wouldn’t upset me, although I would find it bemusing. I wouldn’t assume racism though!

I am half Pakistani, but I have never cooked a curry in my life. My mum is white, she’s brill at curry’s. My dads speciality is salad!

You were buying food in a food store and you asked how to cook the food they were selling. This just isn’t something that would happen

Huh? Clearly we inhabit different worlds, because round here it's the sort of thing which happens all the time

Actually, though, I hope the shopkeeper does follow the bizarre suggestion to report OP to the police ... it's a difficult job in many ways and they'd probably welcome a good laugh

Well OP, he just doesn't want your custom does he? If you do need to look for new things to try, feel free to go in and browse for ingredients. Have a good read of the items and such then simply get them through Amazon. He can watch you walk in and walk out. Screw him.

This is total madness whereby people actually think this is racist - wtf is it with people? I'm Jewish and if someone non-Jewish asked me how to make chopped liver are they then antisemitic because they are assuming too much? Bloody hell - it's completely crazy and things won't ever change until everyone stops being offended by remarks that aren't hateful, hurtful or in any other way derogatory. Is it then a bad thing to ask someone about their culture/race/religion just because they are what they are? How are people supposed to get on with each other and learn about differences if we're never allowed to acknowledge them in any way?

I'm not sure it's racist to assume an Indian person might be more knowledgeable about Indian food. Pretty much all my Indian colleagues from previous jobs made Indian food at home

Though the Indian subcontinent is huge and the cuisine is so varied - it's like saying to an Indian hey tell me how to cook x Asian (Korean) dish or to an English person hey tell me how to cook y European (Russian) dish. Or that Indian cuisine is being reduced to the ubiquitous biryani.

As an English person with ambiguous ethnicity in my colouring, when asked about it I now don't disclose my ethnic origins because of the presumably well meaning or curious comments / questions that then follow on that are ill informed / tedious at best and offensive at worst

Yeah why would you think an Indian person from India who has lived in India would know about Indian food.

Is that you Putin?

@Moussemouse 😂😂😂

When you work in a specialist shop it is part of your job to know about the products.

If you had asked his wife I'm sure she would have been more helpful. Traditionally it's the women's job to cook.