to not want to go by train.

[Frazzled2207]

I have posted before about husband who is very worried about climate change. I am also worried and we are taking lots of steps to reduce our carbon footprint but there's a limit to what I'm prepared to do (at the moment). Currently down to one car and saving for an electric. Solar panels on roof (these cost a fortune). Cutting down on unnecessary purchases (he literally never buys new clothes but accepts stuff I get him for birthdays etc). Massively cut down on meat

Anyway he never wants to fly again. I have said that I am willing to cut down on flying to maybe once every year or two but am not going to say I'm never getting on a plane again.

So his best mate who we see very rarely lives in a nice part of Europe. I also get on well with the mate and his wife and they have kids similar ages to ours who are young primary age. They have invited us to stay this summer.

Husband wanted to look into going by train so I did. In some depth.
Train option costs between £800 and £1000 for four of us. We are up north so this means three hours in a train (cross London) then Eurostar to Paris (cross Paris) then four hours in a train. With two small children and luggage in tow. The way the train works we would leave the house at 6.30am and get there for 10pm.

Or.... there is a flight option. Both we and the friends are close to an airport and direct flight for all four of us costs £300 if we're savvy.

He thinks we should take the train despite the fact that it is enormously more expensive and stressful. I have suggested a compromise that we fly one way and train the other way. But I am not up for the train both ways. The kids are not easy to entertain and having to cross Paris with them in a bit of a rush on a summer Saturday fills me with dread, as well as getting to our friends' house really late when they will be super grumpy.

We can consider overnight in Paris etc but obviously it all adds to the cost and he has limited leave.

AIBU to not want to go by train? I have said me and the kids will fly and he can get the train. But he doesn't think that gives the right message to our children (that flying is an unnecessary luxury), nor does flying one way.

Both of us want to go to see the mate, if we just don't go there will need to go somewhere else for our summer holidays and will probably have exactly the same argument. I'm just not sure how to resolve this as we are both as stubborn as Mrs May and Mr Corbyn at the moment.

I did Gare du Nord to Gare du Lyon this year, and it's not that bad. You can get an uber easily and it will take you 20 minutes or 45 max in traffic so as long as you time connections it should be fine. No steps.

I also agree with pp about ease of train travel vs airports. You can take 2 suitcases and a hand bag on Eurostar compared to planes which are stricter, and the check in is 30 minutes before and super easy, and way more comfortable on the train, with WiFi, tv channels etc and far more space to walk, go to the buffet car etc. Plus of course, you can see the country out of the window so it can be turned into part of the holiday / fun.

Aside from money, I would consider this option, and following pp's suggestion about staying overnight somewhere en route- eg Paris.

We regularly go on holiday by train (3x per year) and have been doing so since dd1 was 8 weeks, she is now 12. We have always had a family railcard for travel in the UK, and have recently discovered a Carte d'Enfant for France - I had looked into this before and drawn a blank, but last time we travelled purchasing this with our tickets (and getting the discount) was cheaper than just purchasing tickets for our one journey. I was a bit annoyed we had never had one before actually (and only dd2 qualifies now).

Where exactly are you going? We can get from Coventry (so admittedly not the north) to Turin in slightly over twelve hours, but it really doesn't feel that long and flying seems so crass in comparison!

The journey between Gare du Nord and Gare de Lyon really isn't that traumatic (although I prefer to get the metro, I'm not keen on the RER and it only takes a couple of minutes longer). Download the ratp app to find the quickest way of travelling at a particular time (it is also possible to do it by bus, if you want to avoid steps).

Thanks both- will look into Carte d'enfant.

The easiest journey has a 70 minute connection between gare du nord and gare de Lyon. I thought that was too tight with kids
And luggage. But with uber perhaps not.

Can you split the journey? Fly to and from Paris, train from and to Paris?

Just fly, you are already doing so much more than millions of other people to minimise your carbon footprint. Don't be so hard on yourselves.

@moredoll
I think dh would argue that is still 60% or so of the carbon footprint.
At least if we did get the train we wouldn't have airport stress.

I think it's commendable that your DH cares.I dislike flying more and more,for the time feeling trapped in an airport,being herded through security and the impact on the planet.DH feels the same.We are flying again soon for a celebration booked some time ago.But have resolved to plan holidays using our electric car or by train in future wherever possible.Just the two of us now.However I would do it with younger children, at least on a train you can get up and walk around more,and have more leg room.Some of our holidays involved long car and ferry journeys with DCs and it was part of the adventure.

Sounds a nice way to travel - we usually drive to Europe I admit, better than flying I believe.

He sounds truly hard work TBH but then I really couldn’t less about my carbon footprint. Only this week I used £50 of fuel one afternoon driving round and round in circles purely for the enjoyment of it!

Well if splitting the journey isn't a big help then go by train, but don't book trains with a 70 minute connection. It makes it too stressful worrying about possible delays. Maybe break the journey in Paris as pp suggested. I think it's admirable that your DH is committed to reducing his carbon footprint.

Traffic in Paris can be unpredictable. Gare de Lyon to Gare du Nord by taxi has taken me almost an hour in the past.

thanks everyone. Had a chat about it this evening and am possibly coming round to the train idea especially because thanks to some suggestions above I think £600ish could possibly be realistic if i make sure I book trains as soon as they become available and use railcards etc to the max. DH has suggested that flying is not a red line in future, just that it is doable not to for this particular trip. He is also now up for a possible side trip to Disney which would certainly break up the journey well in one direction.

Have you asked your friends about perhaps a disney Paris trip, they might meet you there - have a few days in France? If their DCs are a similar age, they might be up for that...

That would be a perfect journey break.

I book trains as soon as they become available and use railcards etc to the max

Booking multi-segment transport where timetables may not always coincide and where getting the cheapest ticket may require flexibility and juggling with dates, is going to be time consuming.

I honestly think that your DH needs to step up and do this - investigate children's rail cards, plan connections between stations, look at what happens if you miss a connection (flexible TGV tickets in France are much more expensive than ones which require you to travel on a specific service, and Eurostar tickets aren't flexible at all).

The plane is going to fly whether you’re on it or not. I think for a one-off trip the cost and stress of choosing a train over a plane sounds a bit OCD.

It's a bit grim to think about, but if he's so concerned about the environment then why did he do the most enormously carbon emitting thing a human can do... Create another human?! At least two more by the sound of it! Take the plane. We've tipped over the edge with carbon emissions. Gotta enjoy the time we have left!

The plane is going to fly whether you’re on it or not.
🙄read the previous page

Hmm the train would be an adventure, and we have travelled much longer than that with our own kids by car so that wouldn’t put me off. It’s the money that would be the sticking point for me. I really admire his principles but I am not sure I’d be out of pocket to that extent so he could stick to them.

when I was a kid we used to get the boat-train from Glasgow to Belgium quite a bit. I loved it. I was tired by the time I got there but it was ok!

I couldn't live with such obsessive selfishness.

Yes, he cares about the future of the planet for all of us and future generations more than his own convenience, how very selfish

I'm another vote for you & the kids flying & hubby taking the train.

Your chat seems to have come up with the solution that
-he gets his own way on this
-you are going to do all the leg work in finding some cheaper deals.

Are you happy with this?!

Why are you the one twatting on finding suitable rail times and prices? Tell him to do it!

It sounds a bit like he’s making all the rules based on his very important ‘principles’but is doing fuck all to help on a practical level.