to not want to go by train.

[Frazzled2207]

I have posted before about husband who is very worried about climate change. I am also worried and we are taking lots of steps to reduce our carbon footprint but there's a limit to what I'm prepared to do (at the moment). Currently down to one car and saving for an electric. Solar panels on roof (these cost a fortune). Cutting down on unnecessary purchases (he literally never buys new clothes but accepts stuff I get him for birthdays etc). Massively cut down on meat

Anyway he never wants to fly again. I have said that I am willing to cut down on flying to maybe once every year or two but am not going to say I'm never getting on a plane again.

So his best mate who we see very rarely lives in a nice part of Europe. I also get on well with the mate and his wife and they have kids similar ages to ours who are young primary age. They have invited us to stay this summer.

Husband wanted to look into going by train so I did. In some depth.
Train option costs between £800 and £1000 for four of us. We are up north so this means three hours in a train (cross London) then Eurostar to Paris (cross Paris) then four hours in a train. With two small children and luggage in tow. The way the train works we would leave the house at 6.30am and get there for 10pm.

Or.... there is a flight option. Both we and the friends are close to an airport and direct flight for all four of us costs £300 if we're savvy.

He thinks we should take the train despite the fact that it is enormously more expensive and stressful. I have suggested a compromise that we fly one way and train the other way. But I am not up for the train both ways. The kids are not easy to entertain and having to cross Paris with them in a bit of a rush on a summer Saturday fills me with dread, as well as getting to our friends' house really late when they will be super grumpy.

We can consider overnight in Paris etc but obviously it all adds to the cost and he has limited leave.

AIBU to not want to go by train? I have said me and the kids will fly and he can get the train. But he doesn't think that gives the right message to our children (that flying is an unnecessary luxury), nor does flying one way.

Both of us want to go to see the mate, if we just don't go there will need to go somewhere else for our summer holidays and will probably have exactly the same argument. I'm just not sure how to resolve this as we are both as stubborn as Mrs May and Mr Corbyn at the moment.

I kind of like his morals though.

Trains through France are often lovely. You could try a later time and get yourself a sleeper car, I love them.

Or, as people say, fly and let him take the kids by train.

I couldn't live with such obsessive selfishness.

I know- the way people think their week away is so much more important than the future of their planet is weird, isn't it? Why the obsession with foreign holidays? Why the selfish prioritisation of them over the environment?

I wonder if he would be so keen on these choices if he had to deal with the consequences. HE wanted the train so YOU researched it? Umm, shouldn't he have done that? He wouldn't be keen on entertaining the DC alone on the train? Is that because the likelihood is that if you all take the train, YOU will be the one dragging two fractious and irritable DC all over Paris while he looks at maps and scratches his chin?

I think him on the train with the DC while you fly (and carbon offset) is perfect.

Buying an electric car moves emissions from car to power station, but the vast majority of emissions are in the manufacture. The green thing would be to buy or keep the smallest possible existing car running as long as possible to maximise the use of resources. Buying new stuff all the time isn't very green at all.

I really think he needs to question if this trip is doable without flights - and if it's not, then be realistic, spend the £1k on a fabulous holiday in the UK or north France.

If his friends didnt live in this location, would you just say it wasn't an option now you don't fly and look elsewhere for your holiday?

Perhaps he needs to decide if he's ready to accept that not flying means he won't get to see his best friend very often face to face, waiting for them to come back or consider meeting them half way (Paris meet up?).

You can't really give up flights and then want to live like you have access to quick and cheap international travel.

the way people think their week away is so much more important than the future of their planet is weird, isn't it

Totally agree - the way some people go on on here you'd think it was the law that everyone has to go on holiday somewhere a long way off every five minutes.

where are you leaving from and have to get to, could you get a boat from UK to france or holland and drive from there or get a train.

Hes had children so he shouldnt ever do anything about the environment ever again?

What a bizarre argument.

If you are going to fly one way make it the homeward journey! On the way out you can make the train part of the holiday and an adventure, on the way back you just want to get home as quickly as possible.

blackteasplease
not a stupid question - tbf he's pretty hands on and the managing of the the children on the 14hour trip would probably be 50/50.
However i suspect he will not want to travel with the kids by himself if I fly one way.

araiwa - respectfully, you don't know my children. They have a tendency to fight and make a bit of a scene when they get tired and grumpy. Agree I am wanting to fly because it's convenient but the cost factor is also significant.

I think I remember your previous thread. Many people worry about climate change and many try and reduce their impact, some sacrificing more that others. Your husband sounds obsessive and very anxious. isn't climate change for him what obsessive hand washing, counting things (my sister :( ) or checking locks might be for someone else?

Remember that he can believe and do what he wants, but you really don't have to live the huge impact his views have on your and your children's lives. I would argue that imposing these lifestyle changes on you are very controlling and can be abusive.

I would not go by train, by the way. I would send him on his own.

I think if you fly often then you should consider reducing number of flights. If it's annual then you aren't unreasonable. Flying one way and train one way is a good idea. I'd say train out and plane home. Carbon footprint is why I won't take flights longer than to USA ( which I have done three times and I am 60). We don't go on holiday at present but used to have 2 family holidays a year if we were lucky and one was driving ( France ) and one was flight ( Greece). 2 family holidays to east coast USA. I believe that eating meat is almost as bad as flying.

Ok I’ve done both.
Train (I’m in the north too so down from where I live to London, Eurostar change over in Paris and train again) as well as plane. Dome wth young dcs too.

I haven’t see such a major difference.
I still need to drive to the airport (one hour for me) vs train station next door.
I have to arrive two hours before the flight (so also two hours of entertaining on the top of the transfer from the car park to the airport) vs arriving 5 mins before.
I had to drive from the airport to my destination. Again either 1hour or 2.5 hours depending which airport I’m using vs train arriving to the town where I’m ataying.

The plane looks easier beause it’s like 2 hours flight but actually there is much more waiting and transport involved than with the train.

What would make me think twice is the cost actually BUT if your DH really doesn’t want to ever fligh again it’s nit going to be the biggest issue for him.

Perch- if you had managed to get 'inappropriate' in to your post i couldve got a full house mn buzzword bingo from you alone

Or go could compromise by flying to Paris and meeting him at Gare du Lyon for the final stretch by train? Links from Charles du Gaulle to Gare du Lyon are ok . Same on the way back.

*you

Btw one or two flights a year is already a lot and more than most people will do.
Maybe you should start negotiating and agree let’s say one or two flights each year is ok. And if you have gone over the ‘allowance’ then you have to take the train.

My husband is also very keen to reduce our carbon footprint. Maybe not quite to this extreme though. His next car will be an electric car, solar panels, energy saving everything in the house.

While I do care very much about what happens to the planet! My position on it is about affordability and how it impacts on our lives. Solar panels are expensive initially but if you can afford to do it, then do it. Electric cars, if there is a car that suits ours/his needs and we can afford it, then do it. When it comes to travelling further distances, we have to look at more than just cost. We live abroad and do travel back to the UK. We drive, it takes 13 hours in the car and the car is fully loaded. We would struggle to carry everything and have 2 kids, one with special needs. While I would like to take a train rather than burn all that fuel, it just doesn't make sense, we would almost certainly miss connections, have to massively cut back on luggage which in some realms makes the trip pointless. The general stress of changing trains would be very difficult for our daughter.

If you can afford to go by train, and the impact it has on you only requires some creative thinking re children, and time keeping then go by train. If going by train significantly risks your ability to make the trip altogether than use an alternative.

I believe that eating meat is almost as bad as flying.

Eh? how are these sums being worked out exactly?

Btw I do agree that if he cares that much, he shouod also be happy to take his two dcs in te train for the whole of the journey. On his own.

Having done that on my own with very young dcs, I know it’s manageable. I’m sure he can do it too.

Happily (for me) ariawa, I don't give a shit what you think. Hope you enjoyed scoring your bingo card.

Good luck OP x

He could be even more environmentally friendly if he sayed at home ...in the dark , in a cave
Flying maybe an unecessay luxury , but then travelling by train is too ......

I would fly everytime

I worry about climate change but I won't stop exploring the planet by plane every now and then. I also compost, recycle, buy locally grown food and very rarely buy new clothes or furniture if what I have is already suitable. I support schemes that plant trees and have lots of wildlife friendly plants etc.

I would offset my carbon footprint. And I would not be getting on the train at all. It is one thing to raise your children to be conscious of global warming and respecting our planet, but it's another to have the father of the family totally dictate all holiday plans. They need to learn that people are different and can make their own choices.

badlydrawnperson

see this article. Our family is now 95% vegetarian (I am fine with this).www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

We flew with our children for the first time last year, despite our environmental credentials (we basically were offered a free holiday and it seemed churlish to refuse), and we won't be doing it again. No matter if one family not flying makes no measurable difference; it felt completely wrong to be doing something we knew to be so destructive to the planet and it spoilt our enjoyment of the holiday. I've got no problem with doing things that are harder/more expensive or just not doing it at all, rather than indulging in luxuries we know to be harmful. The people who are calling your husband a selfish arsehole aren't really thinking this through. That said, you have to do what feels right for you too, but I totally get where he's coming from.