to not want to go by train.

[Frazzled2207]

I have posted before about husband who is very worried about climate change. I am also worried and we are taking lots of steps to reduce our carbon footprint but there's a limit to what I'm prepared to do (at the moment). Currently down to one car and saving for an electric. Solar panels on roof (these cost a fortune). Cutting down on unnecessary purchases (he literally never buys new clothes but accepts stuff I get him for birthdays etc). Massively cut down on meat

Anyway he never wants to fly again. I have said that I am willing to cut down on flying to maybe once every year or two but am not going to say I'm never getting on a plane again.

So his best mate who we see very rarely lives in a nice part of Europe. I also get on well with the mate and his wife and they have kids similar ages to ours who are young primary age. They have invited us to stay this summer.

Husband wanted to look into going by train so I did. In some depth.
Train option costs between £800 and £1000 for four of us. We are up north so this means three hours in a train (cross London) then Eurostar to Paris (cross Paris) then four hours in a train. With two small children and luggage in tow. The way the train works we would leave the house at 6.30am and get there for 10pm.

Or.... there is a flight option. Both we and the friends are close to an airport and direct flight for all four of us costs £300 if we're savvy.

He thinks we should take the train despite the fact that it is enormously more expensive and stressful. I have suggested a compromise that we fly one way and train the other way. But I am not up for the train both ways. The kids are not easy to entertain and having to cross Paris with them in a bit of a rush on a summer Saturday fills me with dread, as well as getting to our friends' house really late when they will be super grumpy.

We can consider overnight in Paris etc but obviously it all adds to the cost and he has limited leave.

AIBU to not want to go by train? I have said me and the kids will fly and he can get the train. But he doesn't think that gives the right message to our children (that flying is an unnecessary luxury), nor does flying one way.

Both of us want to go to see the mate, if we just don't go there will need to go somewhere else for our summer holidays and will probably have exactly the same argument. I'm just not sure how to resolve this as we are both as stubborn as Mrs May and Mr Corbyn at the moment.

Hard for anyone to say whether you are BU, OP. I doubt many posters are doing as much to reduce their footprint as you are, so how can we judge what’s reasonable by the high standards you’ve set yourself? Hope you resolve it in a way that suits your family.

We are up north so this means three hours in a train (cross London) then Eurostar to Paris....

Separate from the main issue I know, but I thought all the Eurostars go from St Pancras these days? If you're coming from the north, you only have to cross the road from King's X, or shortish walk from Euston.

we have looked into carbon offsetting and i would do this but it is a bit of a con tbh. The carbon footprint of train as opposed to flying is about 3%.
Outpinked/stowaway Jo.
Yes I am a bit worried about him and it is a bit OCD however he's a scientist by background and he (and I) have read enough articles to understand that the planet is pretty much fucked unless people stop emitting carbon tomorrow. If a significant proportion of people were willing to drastically reduce their carbon footprint like he is suggesting then we would actually have a chance. Have you read the recent IPCC report? It's scary stuff.

The plane's going anyway so I think I'd rather be on it than not.

Won't the plane be flying there anyway? What difference does it really make if you're on it? It's already making the journey.

Just take the plane.

Awkward though it feels I do believe your DH is right and you can turn the journey into an adventure - and maybe along the way your children will grow up into environmentally responsible adults.

And yes, you don't need to cross London to catch the Eurostar. You might want to do your research again if you think Eurostar still goes out of Waterloo which it hasn't for years and years.

You fly.
He takes the train. With the children.
See how he likes it then.

Marta
Yes that is right. London not too bad. Crossing Paris stressful though.

Is your holiday time very limited? If not, you could break the train journey up with a stay in Paris or elsewhere along the way.

I have travelled round Europe by train as a single parent with two children and have actually enjoyed it, including SW England to Florence by train, via Paris, when they were 4 and 8, interrailing all round Europe when they were about 8 and 12, and lots of other trips.

As long as you pack light it is very easy, but it only really works if you see the train trip itself as part of the holiday, and are not just focused on getting to your end destination as fast as possible. It sounds like 6.30am to 10pm would be too long a day, but staying a night somewhere along the way would allow you to leave later, explore another city and not arrive frazzled.

with respect, are you sure you have to cross Paris - because you thought you had to cross London, which you don't.

The plane's going anyway so I think I'd rather be on it than not.

^ this

It is funny, really, that if someone made a post about climate change and the need to deal with it, there would be widespread agreement. Yet someone makes a post about whether reducing their contribution to climate change is worth an inconvenience and the overwhelming response is that convenience matters much more. Just illustrates why we're in the mess we're in really.

(And I am by no means innocent: for example I agree 100% with the awfulness of the number of disposal coffee cups used and thrown away each day in the UK and the need for us to all use our own reusable ones. I have three reusable ones, which I forget regularly to bring with me. Do I on those days forgo a coffee on my commute? Do I bollocks: I shove down the knowledge that I am once again choosing to be part of the problem and I buy my coffee and half an hour later chuck away the cup it came in. We humans are weird.)

I'm going by train to my holiday destination this year. For me it's partly because it's actually more expensive to fly than for me and my child to go by train (half term week). She's half the cost of me by train whereas flying she costs the same. The environmental cost is secondary.

It's also not horrendously far as we're only going to Geneva.

Later in the year we're going to Spain for which I've also looked into train travel - but it's very expensive compared to flights and the long journey would eat into half-term too much.

If I had the time then I would always prefer train travel over flying. I just find it much more fun. Sleeper trains were some of my best experiences as a child.

The train fares you quote also sound very high - with railcards and shopping around I am sure you could do much better. I did London to Hamburg with two teenagers and two overnight stop-offs for less than 200 euros for the three of us, and a recent trip to Frankfurt was much cheaper by train than plane (we took the train out but had to fly back due to time constraints).

River Tam
We have to get from Gare Du Nord to Gare de Lyon which is not majorly difficult no. But there are lots of stairs, and people, and it is not an enticing prospect with luggage and kids who have a tendency to run off.

That plane will be flying and way, you may as well be on it.

exepat
I have done a lot of research and this is the cheapest reasonable itinerary with high speed trains. It could be done more cheaply if we avoided high speed trains. But would take a lot longer and involve more changes. To actually get a through ticket costs about £1000 for 4. I can get it down a bit by getting separate tickets, if we miss connections we will be screwed. Just getting to London is likely to cost £150 though.

He takes the train, you take the plane. Or he takes train with children and you take the plane

I'd fly with the kids and tell him to walk barefoot wearing a sackcloth.
What an utter arse he is.

*anyway

Fly and offer to let him go on train with kids as pp said. If he doesn't want to do that, just do fly with kids yourself and let him worry about what he's gonna do. He sounds batshit crazy anyway. If he meets you, great. If not, oh well, he missed a great time.

Frazzle the planet is pretty much fucked anyway!

I don't know, it's hard when you both think so differently and neither of you is wrong.

I travel everywhere possible by train, with and without my children. I've even been to Russia and onwards on the Trans-Siberian Express. But that's because I'm terrified of flying so I'll only do it when there's no viable alternative. If it wasn't for that, I would fly more. But train travel does add to the adventure sometimes; depends on the route the train takes.

SO I think you could easily manage by train - but also that you shouldn't have to.

genuine question - do many of you think about your carbon footprint when booking flights these days? I obviously do but don't think that one short haul flight per family most years (perhaps not every year) is unreasonable.

But when I say to friends that we are as a family trying to reduce our emissions, get an electric car, fly less etc I do get a 'you're a bit batshit' look. Really?

Could you fly, amd use from if the cash youd save (say half of your £700 savig if youre feeling generous) to support a carbon offsetting project or something?