to not want to go by train.

[Frazzled2207]

I have posted before about husband who is very worried about climate change. I am also worried and we are taking lots of steps to reduce our carbon footprint but there's a limit to what I'm prepared to do (at the moment). Currently down to one car and saving for an electric. Solar panels on roof (these cost a fortune). Cutting down on unnecessary purchases (he literally never buys new clothes but accepts stuff I get him for birthdays etc). Massively cut down on meat

Anyway he never wants to fly again. I have said that I am willing to cut down on flying to maybe once every year or two but am not going to say I'm never getting on a plane again.

So his best mate who we see very rarely lives in a nice part of Europe. I also get on well with the mate and his wife and they have kids similar ages to ours who are young primary age. They have invited us to stay this summer.

Husband wanted to look into going by train so I did. In some depth.
Train option costs between £800 and £1000 for four of us. We are up north so this means three hours in a train (cross London) then Eurostar to Paris (cross Paris) then four hours in a train. With two small children and luggage in tow. The way the train works we would leave the house at 6.30am and get there for 10pm.

Or.... there is a flight option. Both we and the friends are close to an airport and direct flight for all four of us costs £300 if we're savvy.

He thinks we should take the train despite the fact that it is enormously more expensive and stressful. I have suggested a compromise that we fly one way and train the other way. But I am not up for the train both ways. The kids are not easy to entertain and having to cross Paris with them in a bit of a rush on a summer Saturday fills me with dread, as well as getting to our friends' house really late when they will be super grumpy.

We can consider overnight in Paris etc but obviously it all adds to the cost and he has limited leave.

AIBU to not want to go by train? I have said me and the kids will fly and he can get the train. But he doesn't think that gives the right message to our children (that flying is an unnecessary luxury), nor does flying one way.

Both of us want to go to see the mate, if we just don't go there will need to go somewhere else for our summer holidays and will probably have exactly the same argument. I'm just not sure how to resolve this as we are both as stubborn as Mrs May and Mr Corbyn at the moment.

I bloody love train travel in Europe and hate hanging around in airports, so it'd be a no-brainer for me. The journey's half the fun imo.

We travel quite a lot by train in Europe and, if on holiday, we prefer the ordinary trains to the superfast ones. You get more of a chance to see the country you are passing through.

Slow trains have their charms but with bored kids they might wear thin rather quickly.

I do south of France to Paris very regularly and depending on the time of year, sometimes the only way to get cheap TGV seats is to book as soon as they are released or take a chance on last minute availability. It's fine if you can be flexible but that's not always possible.

OP I admit to not having RTFT so I don't know where you are going (and I still think you should travel how you want and not be bullied by your OH) - but depending on where you are going you could consider an overnight train. This is my favourite way of travelling.

I don't understand his logic. And I do care about the environment and lower emissions.

You've not said how old your children are? I have regularly taken mine on 5hr train journeys (on my own to visit family) since the first was born and always found it the easiest form of travel.
We are going to S.France (from Wales) with 2 kids later in the year by train because I don't want to fly.

Last year I hadn't been open with my OH about my fears about climate change we flew because I knew he wanted to and it really affected my mental health re my hypocrisy of thinking we should all do what we can to avoid climate change. I would rather just holiday in UK so the compromise is abroad but by train (which is very low carbon in europe due to the electrification).

We are lucky our kids 7/10 are really excited about the train - it is more expensive often (although check child tickets - and advice on seat 61 that can reduce the cost) and I would much prefer entertaining a child on a train than hanging around check in for a plane - esp when they are delayed etc. Also £300 for 4 people to fly is only such a low price because aviation does not pay tax.

Train one way flight the other seems a fair compromise but i take your OH point that it is teaching the children something he doesn't believe. Good luck with resolving it.

Your husband has no right to impose this on the rest of his family. If he wants to travel a certain way, fine. Everyone else can do what they want. He’ll make no difference in the grand scheme of things so can’t see why he gets so worked up about it.

Train is a great way to travel with or without kids

We ended up taking the train to the west coast of France last August. Primarily we looked at the option as the flights were prohibitively expensive ( £1000+) (We did the same journey but by plane the year before!) but reducing our carbon footprint was a plus point- hired bikes instead of a car when we got there which was great.

It was £500 return total for 4 (kids 5 &8) of us from st Pancras to SW French coast. My husband worked out when the cheap tickets were released, after seeing the flights were not coming down. For us not too different to flying time-wise when you factor driving to airport, parking, check in etc etc for a plane.

We all really enjoyed it and it was less stressful and more relaxed in lots of ways (sitting around a table playing games etc), and more of an adventure, and we would definitely do it again.

The Paris transfer was my biggest worry so we really planned it. We took a taxi across Paris on the way out (as it was faster for the station we needed and we had quite a short transfer time, and we got to see a little of Paris) and took the metro on the way back (more stressful but fine as we’d read guides on exactly where we needed to go ahead of time!). It did help on the metro that 8 yr old could pull a bag, we packed v light, and no buggy etc was needed.

Just wanted to put my tuppence in to say this kind of travel could be really enjoyable and the cost might be cheaper when the tickets come out.

However, overall, compared to your plan, we didn’t have such a long journey to st Pancras, or such a long journey onwards from Paris and our kids are an age where they can play games, quite self sufficient etc. And if I’m honest the decision was really made for us by the flights being prohibitively expensive, with the carbon and fun of the journey being very positive side benefits!!

I wouldn’t want to do such long train or car journeys with little children who tend to fight and get grumpy. If it were me, I’d tell your DH that if he isn’t prepared to ‘allow’ you all to fly you won’t be going. What matters more - the well-being of you and the DCs or his environmental obsession?

You and the kids fly, he can do all that train nonsense.

I have a sister like your husband, OP, which effectively means we will probably never meet again in this world.

I really don't think such a huge sacrifice by a few dedicated people like your husband and my sister will make one iota of difference as long as the rest of the world is being completely careless.

In my opinion, it would be better if campaigners showed people how they can cut down on flights without it being a major sacrifice.

It's like a vegetarian who allows their diet to seriously affect their health, when the idea behind vegetarianism is that we do not need to eat meat.

Better yet, he could cycle.

(Just joking, but a fiend of mine cycled Brighton to Turkey last year. He was gone almost 3 months. An incredible adventure I'm sure.. and incredibly uncomfortable too!)

Did someone seriously suggest OP's DH has mental health issues and needs to see a GP because he is concerned about climate change and wants to reduce his carbon footprint?

Wow. The planet really is fucked with attitudes like that

@Frazzled2207 I'm genuinely interested, so please don't take this as sarky - it's not at all! If he's so concerned with his carbon footprint, and it is commendable, I agree that the IPCC report is scary - how did he rationalise having kids?

That's a fair comment @AnchorDownDeepBreath he struggles with that tbh. He's only realised last few years how bad it is tbh. If he knew then what he knew now he wouldn't have had them-
I believe him on that front.

Is he a science teacher by any chance?

Not a science teacher no but previously was an academic scientist.

AWishForWingsThatWork
Ask him what he's going to do if your children grow up and emigrate overseas, say AUstralia, the states, China ... Is he never going to see them again? Ask them not to visit?

Swim?

Ugh he's a worthy. Tell him not to forget to pack his sackcloth and ashes and to take a moldy loaf of bread with him. Wouldn't be right for him to eat tasty food and think about the energy saved by not cooking his food.

It would really blow his mind if he knew there were people like me who believe that the planet is quite capable of managing its own climate and there have been many changes from tropical to ice age and back over the 3.5 billion years it has been in existence.

That doesn't mean I disagree with the reduction in the use of plastics, which is extremely harmful to wildlife and China needs to be taken to task for the enormous amount of pollution it emits.

I have no children, haven't flown in over ten years and don't have a car so don't feel guilty when I tuck into a juicy steak.

Fly both ways, OP, let him take the train.

You are not going every year, so I think you should take the train on this occasion, stop off somewhere you would find interesting to visit on the way.

Incidentally I think with careful planning and advance booking you should be able to go there for less than the £1000 mentioned.

I'd drive to pretty much anywhere in Europe. The motorways are fab. It's cheaper than plane or train and you can take as much luggage as you like.

As a former child who went all over Europe on trains and coaches (because my Dad was terrified of flying) I can attest that it is pretty miserable! Both for the kids and the parents. By the time we ever got anywhere our stress levels were through the roof, we kids were grumpy and my parents needed another holiday to get over the one we were having.

Things vastly improved in our family holiday wise when my Dad had hypnotherapy and we started flying.

As the mother now of a 4yo and 2yo I wouldn’t do this.

A family railcard makes a huge difference to train prices within the UK - it can be well worth it even if you are only doing one longish journey.

Also, if you are travelling from anywhere in the UK to catch the Eurostar, either get a through ticket, or buy a London International CIV ticket, which gives you protection against missed connections and can be used on any train (including peak hours with no extra cost) - see all the advice at www.seat61.com/UKconnections.htm.

If you are looking now for travel in the summer, you probably won't be finding good deals available to book yet.

We travel by train mainly out of choice (very much prefer train to cars for long journeys and instead of short-haul flights) but also for environmental reasons.

@exexpat thanks for that really helpful. Agree a family railcard will help with the UK element and we could make further use of it.

Won't the plane be flying there anyway? What difference does it really make if you're on it? It's already making the journey.

🙄if enough people stopped flying then the plane wouldn't be going. If enough people thought like the OP's DH then maybe we wouldn't be so fucked.

It is his mate so let him take the children which every way he chooses ( and plans as at the moment it looks like you doing all the donkey work to facilitate his choices)
You can stay home and book yourself a nice relating spa break within 30 minutes travel of your home.

@TacoLover with you on that one.
We really do all need to fly less generally.
Then there would be less planes, and less carbon emissions.