DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

I’m not 100% sure how these work either but is there something you could put in place as part of it that would solely revolve around any kids you may have? In the event you do end up getting a divorce, he has to pay x in childcare fees, ensure you and the kids have a home ect ect.

@Gone4Good more like he will look back and laugh as he leaves her with nothing... if that was true then why have the prenup in the first place if it's all going to be one big 'oh you' joke one day?

@Gone4Good Did you miss the bit where OP's savings have gone?

Being a geeky shy academic is no guarantee of anything. Half the men at my work were geeky and shy in their 20's and 30's and not a great catch but by the time they were 40's or 50's they've run off with their PhD student or postdoc and aren't shy or geeky any more at all. This is a common pattern in academia as men who might not be 'hot' when they are younger, get 'hot' through a combination of (minor) power and the lure of being a professor or whatever. The really quite unattractive older male academic with really quite attractive younger female is a sadly common one.

I wouldn't marry with a prenup though. For better, for worse. I have supported my husband, he me, we have shared all the money we had to make a better life for the whole family.

They’re not enforceable but they do show intention and are taken into account - if I were you though I’d ensure I was named I the mortgage and the property to be held as joint tenants so if anything were to happen to him you’d still have a home for yourself and any potential children

There could be an agreement that the house is is, which it obviously is. You could be added to the Deeds but only with his agreement and given what you say about him doubt he would so you have no interest at all in the property. His personal finances could as at the date of wedding also be protected eg the amount of savings, stocks,shares,bonds. This would mean there would have to be an up to date declaration of the worth. Any interest accrued could then be regarded as to be joint asset. If he continues to solely pay mortgage no issue. If you can afford to have a joint account this could be shared household expenses. This is only practical if you have enough earnings left to maintain yourself after contributing to the joint account. Like others above why bother marrying someone who appears to want to protect his self interest. You will certainly be leaving yourself very vulnerable. Who knows what the future may bring. Marriage is supposed to be a shared experience not a yours and mine and hands off venture for your future life.

Yeah actually all this discussion. But I would never marry a man who asked for a prenup. He clearly wouldn’t know me at all.

I don't think the OP is coming back!

Think she made her mind up and I don't think it was in line with what the hundreds of comments have said

beansontoastertea and usersmoozer - two women burned and now trying to make other women as miserable as they are.

Your choice. You do not have to marry him or even stay with him. You cold get your own demands drawn up by a solicitor including compensation for loss of earnings/pension, if and to the extent HE expects you compromise your financial independence and future earnings to bring up a family.

I assume you still want to marry him despite his approach to your relationship because you do actually want to enjoy his wealth. After all, it can't be love, can it? Not given how he is reducing you to a commodity. But as I said, you could do that right back at him. Think of it as true commercial bargain.

We have one. Except it’s my money. I love DH, I really do, and we’ve been married for a long time now. It isn’t a sign I love him any less, but 1 in 3 marriages do end in divorce and I need to protect the money I was given by my parents in the event that does happen to us. You don’t go on holiday planning to have an accident, but it’s still sensible to take out travel insurance.....

My husband and I don’t have a pre nup as we bought our joint house once we were married. We have something on our joint mortgage that says he gets his deposit back. We both own house separately but my husband took money from his property to pay the deposit for our joint house. I think it’s called a deed of trust.

When I met my Hubby, I had my house and land with a small mortgage, superannuation, debt free car although no long term savings. He was on the way out from a previous relationship, which had a mix of homes and mortgages, bigger super than mine etc etc which after court, left little. Throughout our 24 odd years together, at times each one has had more money than the other from our individual income streams. We have never had individual bank accounts, rather they were merged early on and before having a child, we became a ''collective'' rather than individuals. We are looking at asset protection for our young adult child, to resist any claim from a potential partner She may meet, but overall not from each other. We (again at different times) had benefits from estates which has gone into the collective debt or growth. neither of us have had any problems with that, but neither did we as a collective or individual grow ''rich'' overnight from the estate benefits. Personally if you are now without your savings while He has plenty of resources, I would be asking questions as to why You are in the position you are now in. Sexually transmitted debt is a huge problem and I suspect you are shouldering more of a burden than is your fair portion.

Peopel keep saying they are not enforceable that is not always so if each party has their own advice and they are fair.

As expat says you may be shouldering a burden but in my view that directly comes out of sexist attitudes - that mothers should be hbome or work for pin money. If instead there was a good chance of earning double what the husband does as both would work full time as happens in plenty of marriages then the prenup could be protective to the wife here particularly if it allows them to keep new savings from their earned wages separate and inheritances from her family in due course.

If you did sign it you would then be daft to be a sahm or compromise your earning power as you will have forfeited the protection marriage brings sahms. So as Xenia says if you marry him you will need to prioritise your own career and interests and not his / the fsmily.

Firstly I would go to Relate together to talk this through before you get married. That's what I would do

If, after this, DP still wants a pre-nup and you still want to marry him then

You could get your own demands drawn up by a solicitor including compensation for loss of earnings/pension, if and to the extent HE expects you compromise your financial independence and future earnings to bring up a family.

This (above) is what I would do

Get financial compensation written in to the pre-nup for your loss of earnings and pension , your loss of potential career advancement , your loss of independence/freedom (tied to the home/children) , your loss of savings and ability to save , your inability to buy property etc

This, over however many years you intend to be a SAHM and/or work part time, would be a HUGE figure which he would be required to pay you on divorce in addition to child maintenance and providing you and the children with somewhere to live.

This is what I would do if your DP insists on projecting his bad experience as a child onto you

I’ve been thinking about your dilemma a lot (and have some knowledge of the technical aspects) on the one hand you are anbu to be a bit upset about this suggestion. Nobody wants to start a marriage planning what happens if it doesn’t work. bUT you explain why your fiancée is more cautious. You can see it as an opportunity to have a grown up conversation about money and your roles within the family. You seem to have fairly definite plans which is fine but does he see raising children as being an equal contribution to the family. Will he be willing to recognise that even though you may have contributed less financially that you will have facilitated his career by making sacrifices with yours. I think this is the opportunity to talk through these issues and the responses you get will tell you a lot about your chap. None of us know what the future holds but true comparability lies in having shared values and attitudes to the important things in life which include family etc. Finally on a technical issue courts are increasingly recognising pre nups but only in big money cases where there is more than enough to go around. If this ends up as your only home and you split after having children he needs to be prepared for the pre nup to be disregarded he needs to reflect on whether it is worth spending the solicitors fees on something which could ultimately be worthless. If it is the scenario he experienced when he was a teenager which concerns him then he needs some advice on estate planning and needs to write a will. Hope this helps. Good luck!

@Gone4Good nope never been burned... well sometimes when I'm cooking chips

If he feels he can be open and honest with you, I think that's a good thing. I don't see a problem with prenups. But you need to be open and honest with him, and point out the financial and career hits children will involve, and your need to feel secure, just as he wants to. You have just as much right to expect this agreement to protect your interests as he does for it to protect his.

A prenup can set out what needs to happen if you have children, and how you plan, at that stage, to ensure both of you are protected. It doesn't only have to protect his interests - it can look after yours. You don't need to be protected and included in his assets now, but if you split up and children are in the picture, and you're the one with the career break, and the kids need housing until adult life, then he has to be a grownup and accept that his money is no longer just his. It also needs to consider what would happen financially if one of you became disabled, for example. It could set out that he has responsibility to take out good critical illness protection, and for you, too, once there are kids. As someone who has had breast cancer young, and didn't take that out because I was the SAHP, we are kicking ourselves now - I'm SAH because we have a disabled child and despite his good income, it's not easy managing the extra costs. Both sides need that protection. It should also set out that life insurance is necessary, again for both parties, once you plan a family.

Talk to him about those aspects. Point out that a prenup that wouldn't be fair on you is no better than the no prenup he feels likely to be unfair on him. Draw one up that sets out that actually, if he wants you to say be a SAHM for ten years then you should be entitled to a share in the house and his pension that reflects that sacrifice - not just in money at that time, but harmed career prospects etc as well. And if you split up, what contribution would he make to childcare? CMA provide the bare bones only, which is why unmarried couples often leave the woman very badly off after a split, if she's taken a career hit for children.

I'd also talk through what share of the house equity your contributions to date should mean, and what they should mean going forwards, too. And what contributions to home equity childcare should represent later, as well.

Nothing at all wrong with a good prenup that sets out what you both expect. It would help a future judge. A lot wrong with one that means he can go into marriage, anticipating children, not that differently from a cohabitant.

Try to secure one that leaves you both happy. He has no worries about setting out what he needs, does he? So do the same. Apart from anything else, this conversation will end up with you both knowing far more about the character and expectations of the person you are planning to marry, and that's massively valuable, in and of itself. If he respects and accepts that both of you need to feel financially looked after, then great. If he's resistant, or worse... then you have information that may be unwelcome, but is better available prior to walking down that aisle.

@pinkydozza said it more succintly.

Also worth pointing out that nobody can ever know the future, and his career may take a serious dive, while yours flourishes. I know several women paying out to men who were lower earners. It happens. A pre-nup being symmetrical on those aspects would, as @Xenia says, potentially protect you as well. It's not common for women to earn more, yet, but it does happen more and more. And if for some reason he stayed home (impending recession meant he lost his job and struggled to find another, for example) while your earnings kept you both, and he had an affair and left... well, the prenup could secure your interests too.

It needs to be fair, I think. To you both. Marriage is a bit of a financial leap in the dark, so this could be a good thing for you, as well as him. The conversation alone would be of so much value.

You are giving up a lot already in terms of career advancement. Are you in your middle / late 20s? That's the age to build up you career before having children. Instead you are following his careers location requirements. I'd go with the deed of trust regarding the house and nothing more. Still think he is tight. 150K is not a lot of money. My husband earns a lot more than me in part due to the fact I have to work part time and had a few years home to look after the children. It really hurts your earning potential So it's never very fair.
Another thing is that even though he earns 3 times what you earn he is letting you use up your savings. That doesn't sound good. My husband earns more, so he pays more in the household. And the joint account is only for bills. So he has no access to my personal saving and vice versa. Be careful. Sometimes seemgly kind and sweet man can be very controlling.

This was me - except I had the money and the home already and gave up (thought had paused) career for kids. ExH bought nothing to the table. Promised he would never take anything anyway as I had built up before he arrived. Had simple pre-nup drawn up by solicitor to protect the money I had in the home which I had bought.

Made no difference.

Marriage broke down and I realised what a terrible liar ExH was. ExH became evil. Tried everything to force the home to be sold. court used 50/50 as a starting point to argue about who got what. Cost me a fortune in Court.

I only still have my home now because my family made enormous sacrifices to pay him off.

Will never marry again.

That solicitor who charges you X per hour to discuss Pre-Nups and reassure you is from the same family who charge you X to argue against the pre-nup/twist events etc in Court.

It's all just there to make money and sadly you cannot put your faith in human kindness or decency - to some that goes out of the window when money is involved.

The bottom line is I guess that you are demonstrating decency by agreeing to sign something (as the majority of money is his). At the end of the day and 10/15/20 years down the line, if things do go wrong you will stand to get a good chunk of the shared interests anyway - unless he plays dirty with the financial situation.

*Marriage broke down and I realised what a terrible liar ExH was. ExH became evil. Tried everything to force the home to be sold. court used 50/50 as a starting point to argue about who got what. Cost me a fortune in Court.

I only still have my home now because my family made enormous sacrifices to pay him off.*

I must admit that ime when money rears it's head in relationships, the true essence of the people emerges