DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

If it was the woman who had the assets she’d be told to protect it and not even marry to enable this. Why is it different for the man?

FFS, why isn’t it possible to have any debate about an issue without this ridiculous whataboutery of “If it were a man”

It isn’t, it’s irrelevant and completely ignores the fact that the vast majority of people have said he’s right to protect his 150k asset.

Stop whinging on about double standards every time there is a debate.

He should not marry you if he doesnt trust you.
And yes does he even care how does this all make you feel?
Doesn't matter how much you or him earn really - very rich spouse can take him to the cleaners too.
I would never have joint accounts though... why? Ok maybe to have one for paying bills ... whose idea was it? Yours ? So you can see his money? Cant imagine him wanting a joint account esp if he had a bad experience...
why did you spend 7k on wedding? Did he not? Sounds bizarre to spend your last penny on wedding maybe just wait or save more?

I don’t think OP will return I think she’s made her mind up.

For what it’s worth I get the protection of his 150k to an extent. Less the 7k if that has completely been spent but seems some is in joint savings. However I think it should be reviewed when they have children in a view to either not have it or have it slightly different. Earning potential will change and a value needs to be put on that.

I would feel quite sad at this prospect entering into a marriage as it feels like expecting failure, maybe don’t get married for a few more years to see how the relationship develops.

Good luck, I hope it does work out but that you also get some independent advice, it does feel like you have rushed to a decision from uncertainty pretty quickly.

I view money as something that allows your family to live the best life that you can afford (whether that is holidays, food, home,education etc etc) . I wouldn’t even contemplate marrying someone who was worried about ‘protecting their assets’!

But they are not binding in this country! Why bother?
I don't think its' acceptable at all tbh to prenup you.
I would be sceptical, indeed. My DP would lay down his last penny for me, I know cos he has... literally took me to dinner at the saddest time in my life with his last bean.ETC.
I have been with men who were so venal, and I never realised because I am rather generous in relationships. My husband of 15 years cared about nothing but money and screwed me over after he had an affair.
I just think thinking about money at this stage is crap. Hope you are okay with all this. I'd be gutted.

MSL, they are binding or at least have strong indicative force if both sides have legal advice from separate firms, they are not made under time pressure just before a wedding, if both sides totallyd is close what they have and earn and if the deal is fair - eg zero to one side would not be fair whereas £1m might well be even if the other party keeps their £20m.

You are young, probably beautiful, educated and with a lot of potential. You have at least ten years prime fertile time in your hands. Leave this guy, focus on yourself and getting your savings back up. He’s not a keeper however nice he might be in other areas. You’ll be giving him children yet he cannot imagine the prospect of sharing his overly priced house that you did not get to choose and now will have to clean and keep because he’ll be too busy being successful!!! Having children really changes your life and leaves is vulnerable for at least 7 years. If there is a prenup, it should be all about ensuring his continued support and a bonus for you for each pregnancy, childcare fees, cleaners etc! All the best, look up, don’t settle for copper when you are worth gold

Hello.
I appreciate you're in love and see your future together, but your differing attitudes to money is a bad omen, whether or not you get a prenup, marry and have children together.

If you are hoping to have children, a prenup could seriously diadvantage you.
Also, my understanding is prenups are typically considered by people with a lot more money. (I' m not minimising the value of his home, but you also need to consider what you are/will bring to the marriage, as well as potential 'sacrifies'.)

I would recommend you seek some independant legal advice (not his family's lawyer).
I would suggest you have further discussions together about how you manage money now and when you're married.
Finally, think about if he's really the right one for you. Every marriage has it's challenges, along with life's uncertainties. Commitment and generosity (not just with financial issues) will help see you thro' the more difficult times. If you're not sure at this stage when 'life is rosy', don't take the plunge!
Best of luck.

Why is he retaining a standard 75% of the profits? Dependent on when any sale occurred and the market values at that time 75% may not be commensurate with the financial support you've given. Also, why is the prenup not acknowledging the savings you have invested into the relationship/home?
It's that imbalance that would make me wary.The provision for any future children is as you would expect. But you still seem to be at a disadvantage if there are no DCs.

If I was negotiating that sort of pre-nup, I would build in my salary / expected salary (index linked) and have the wish to have you at home looking after children - and the value placed on that by your future husband - quantified. This is just in case he leaves you when they are teenagers, you have been out of the job market for a while and have lost your identity and self-worth, and NO value is placed on this sacrifice.
If there is a pre-nup, giving up work to raise children is your sacrifice and needs to be recognised as such within the legal framework.
I would also ring fence my £7k, if he has ring fenced what he brought into the relationship.
That is fair, rational and reasonable.

He doesn't want to be your partner. He wants to control you. Don't marry him! As someone else said, what if he leaves you? You'd be foolish to trust him in my opinion, as he clearly sees great chances of your marriage ending before it's even begun and wants to "protect" (gain, if you've facilitated his career for years first) himself at your expense.

I would tell him you aren't willing to get married or have children with him under this agreement as it will make you vulnerable to circumstances outwith your control (giving up career for x years and already losing 7k and being stuck being the primary care - childcare issues etc) but as you love him you are happy to carry on living with him and not have children therefore you maintain your career and albeit you have already lost 7k (very fortunately you say you hadn't realise this at the time) but not willing to lose more. So you can stay as you are and if either of you get fed up and decide you have to go have children then you will need to find someone who isn't going to force you into a vulnerable position if anything goes unforeseeably wrong.

I think pre-nups are not strictly legal in the UK but a solicitor can draw up something like, if not called that.

Very sensible in my opinion. Why any objectin?

Honestly, the only good reason to get married is to get financial security for the partner who earns less and/or gives up their career to look after the children in case of a split-up.

Marriage is a legal and financial contract. With a pre-nup that boids that and restricts a fair division of funds I honestly don’t see any point in getting married.

Things look rosy before the wedding and can go ugly from there, especially post-children, when you’re the main childcare giver and resentment sets in.

I would seriously reconsider marriage in your case, even if it means losing the wedding deposit.

Why is he retaining a standard 75% of the profits? YES

What if his earnings go down because he becomes ill? What if you have been paying more into the mortgage than him for years? He'd stand to gain at your expense.

There was a thread not long ago where a poor woman was devastated and worried because the husband she had cared for for years through serious illness got better and then left her, and was trying to rip her off in the divorce, all the while having taken up with another woman, and I think maybe starting a new family. He was from a well off background and yet was trying to pay no child support to her, force her to sell the family home (with kids in it) not split pensions and keeping prior and other property to himself and of course saw himself as the the poor ill victim while the fact was the wife had given up a lot to care for him and was going to be left with not a lot to rebuild from. She never saw that coming.

Voids, not boids

Watching and following this with great interest.

Happyhattie I am over 20 years down the road from all this albeit NOT married ( mainly his decision NOT mine !! ) have 2 children, my o.h was loyal academic & shy , gentle type ( and I too was his first long term partner ) he too was VERY devoted to me when we meet but that like anything after years, dwindled !! I promise you recent mention of getting marriage since my eldest child is now starting to ask akward questions has raised both my o.h and I to be concerned about relationship ! Over 20 years with him and only now is he coming around to the idea of us getting married as I like some other women have had to make tough choices like cutting down to p/t work & crap maternity leave pay etc etc. Thinking now how vulnerable I am scares the hell out of me , not just financially but where kids & I would end up if anything happened to rock our relationship! Lifestyles, people & stress levels change every year in any relationship, so thread carefully from someone who has been there, thankfully with No mention of a Prenup , but non the less very good luck whatever you decide !

Ask him what his intentions for a will are when you get married, supposing you have a happy marriage how does he see himself willing his assets? This should give you a good indication of his true value of you.

Hmm. I had a prenup in 1991. I had about £250k. DH had prospects. The prenup in simple terms protected my percentage of equity and my money. We bought our first house together shortly afterwards for £320k. The agreement was such that I would always retain 75% of the house's value.

It became immaterial because DH started earning a great deal of money and was self employed for most of his career. Many of our assets are therefore in my name for tax purposes.

He probably wouldn't have earnt as much without the security I afforded him.

I saw my mother take my father to the cleaners and my mother's second husband take her to the cleaners. It was never going to happen to me.

The reason pre-nups get complicated is because they are inherently unfair as they are based on a snapshot in time and can't account for what will happen in the future.

That is what divorce law is meant to be for - to look at the situation at the point of separation (or thereabouts) and to assess what is fair at THAT point.

I would refuse his pre-nup request. You are absolutely right that you would stand to lose out, and with property prices stagnant or falling, you could find yourself with young children, a stalled career, and absolutely no equity to rehouse were the marriage to go wrong.

It would be interesting to gauge his reaction if you refuse. You could also perhaps suggest seeing a lawyer together, or a mediator, to discuss further, and see how he reacts when faced with these alternate futures where you could be left unable to rehouse.

I can tell you from experience, that it is very frightening indeed having put your career on the back burner for children, and being in a failing marriage frightened to take action because you are worried about money. Protect yourself.

Refuse, nothing says “I don’t trust you” more than a pre-nup. Anytime there is a problem in your relationship know this is there will make things 10 times worse.
Tell him that a wedding and kids are not a good idea if he thinks now that he can’t trust you, and that therefore you both should wait until he feels he can trust you to be an equal partner in the relationship

Refuse, nothing says “I don’t trust you” more than a pre-nup

Equally you could turn that around and say those that wouldn't sign one are after money.

Break it off and see how honourable he is in giving you back your 7k... how long does it take and does it make a song and dance ?

I am cross on your behalf! I was so affronted when my other half suggested the same. I did the prenup. We included specific clauses to make to each other feel ‘comfortable’ you could add specific allowances you want for yourself and the children to be. Also bear in mind no judge would ever uphold an agreement that is prejudiced against another person. I can give you the name of my solicitor if you want? Don’t take the whole prenup thing to heart. It’s a document to protect you both. My hubby and I never once in the 4 years we have been married ever mentioned it.

HappyHattie He is a thoughtful man who saw his parent go thorough a bad experience and it has made him cautious. He lives and learns - good for him.

I understand how you feel about walking down the aisle with everyone knowing he's 'protecting his assets from you' but it sounds as if the people who know about it have all done the same.

You both want to bring your children up in a traditional marriage, where he brings home the bacon and you nurture the children. Good for you. One day you will both look back on his concerns about protecting £150,000 and a good laugh.