DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

You are a fool OP. I’m sorry but you are. No chance would I be sharing a bank account with someone, married or not. For household expenses- reasonable. For ALL expenditure? Absolutely not.

There are so many people on here who have had bad experiences. Surely a marriage should be based on mutual trust. No trust no marriage in my opinion this extends to every avenue in your life. You are agreeing to take him on with all of his history be it good or bad and all of his family be they bad or good why should his finances be separate. I completely don't get this at all. Perhaps you should get a quote for one month's full time nursery care 8am till 6pm and school holiday care and then put it on a spreadsheet for the next 16 years. See how much that sets him back. I think this situation is completely disrespectful of your station in life and makes you seem somehow less important than him. You are making all of the compromise your savings your career your time many lonely evenings at home with the children while he works. Has he considered these things. Are his eyes fully open around what having a family would entail? Would he do anything to make your relationship work. If the answer is no then please don't even entertain the idea of a family with this partner. Having a young family can be really hard graft if you can't even get out of the starting blocks then don't so it!

Here's my story on pre nups, I hope it helps.

I think my husband got the idea from his already twice married, soon to be married again friend who had his fiancé sign a pre nup. He, like my husband had far more assets than his soon to be wife.

My husband is a director in his family company, and has 1/4 shares. I had nothing. He owned two properties, I owned none. I now work in the business and would like to think I bring plenty to the table.

At first I was okay with the idea, I mean we're all going to be married forever right? But then, like you I heard stories. And I also started to think about my ability to pursue my career after we had kids (we have them now, and I have gone back to work but not at full capacity). So I basically just said 'No'. I said I felt a pre nup showed he had doubt, and if he had doubt, now I had doubt. It was a horrible feeling.

He really didn't know where to go with that. So after a coupe of weeks of awkward conversations and silences, I packed my stuff and headed off to my sisters. I was horrified he had spoken to a friend about this (who I know will have told others). He hated the fact I was talking to my sister about it, but he'd opened the door to this, so he just had to hate it.

During the 10 days I spent at my sisters I accepted that if he was going to insist on the pre nup I was going to walk away from the relationship. I hated how even the discussions about the pre nup made me feel, and I knew I didn't want to live with that. I felt sure about the marriage until he showed doubt - for that moment it changed the dynamic. But I'm pleased to say, with that all that many years behind us, I have no doubt that I found my soul mate. It was just a blip.

I'm friends with the wife who signed the pre nup with my DH friend. She has mentioned it a few times, in a resentful way, because she now has children and has been unable to work. Apparently her mother on her death bed managed to muster the strength to grab him by the throat and tell him what she thought of his pre nup a week before she passed. So she now resents him for the stress he caused her Mum too.

I'm sure many pre nups go ahead with no such bad feeling - but my story isn't one of them. I wish you the best of luck and a very happy marriage.

Have a clause put in that at the point of having children together the pre up is nul and void and all finances are equally shared.

I would leave.

When dh and I met I owned a flat and earned more than him. He rented, was working and studying for his qualifications. He then bought a house and I sold my flat. In between he'd bought his flat then moved in with me. Twenty odd years later we are married with kids, I haven't worked for years. He comes from family with money. I've had the only inheritance I'll more than likely get, £2k, whereas he stands to get high six figured. But we share everything. I don't know all what he does with his money but he always sadness he calls it ours when telling me stuff, I have all the account and password details and if I need more money I get it. We have separate day to day accounts as it's my choice too. It is how it Should be. I'd leave.

Accept the prenup re the £150 k but insist on being named on the mortgage and joint assets going forward as you will be married. If he's not up for moving I would seriously reconsider the relationship.

Kids will be covered with child support if you split he will still have to pay for them . cover your cash and savings in the agreement I don’t see why he shouldn’t have one to cover his own back also depending on how long you have been together also If a lot of his family has theses agreements in place no need to be embarrassed if you love him and he you it’s a no brainier you have nothing to lose people these days get married for stupid reasons if your marring for love the rest shouldn’t matter make sure your heart and head are in the same place good luck sweetie x

Kids will be covered with child support if you split he will still have to pay for them

Ha ha ha ha ha 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂

So I am a woman who was in a similar situation to your fiancé when I met my fiancé.

I was 35, I was in the process of buying a house with a £157k deposit which i has accrued by buying and selling a few times and overpaying my mortgage for 10 years. We worked together and I earned more than him although not 3 times as much.

I also had had a previous bad experience with an ex who I ended up giving some money to.

I became pregnant early on and we became engaged. We decided we would add him to the mortgage. Initially I did want to protect my deposit as it was a lot of money to put in. My fiancé did have a house up north that he was going to sell to pay for renovations but the equity from this was much less.

We had several awkward conversations about this, I felt it made me vulnerable and I had always been independent. On the other hand he would be putting some money into the renovation so it made him vulnerable. We then had our first child and quite honestly it was a non issue after that. He was added to the mortgage without any agreement around my intial deposit.

We now have two children, I have since been promoted twice and still earn more than him. We have a very equal relationship as I am a bit of a feminist, we both work compressed hours, 4 days a week so we each have a day at home in the week with the children.

I agree that you have to be careful but at some point you have to trust that other person. I also know my fiancé well enough to know that if we did split we would both be fair, I know that people will say you think you know someone but I am 100% confident in both of our values when it comes to fairness.

For your situation I understand why he might want to protect his initial equity but this should not include pension etc etc
I also understand why it is very hurtful, because it doesn’t seem like a great start to a relationship.

I think you need to discuss this in much more detail and explain how it makes you feel. Good luck

Can't you factor into the prenup that after each child, the assumption is that you would not work for a few years and the loss of income whilst at home with children will be factored in to how you would split at that point?
To be honest it's a way to force that conversation now. Does he expect you to work full time while you have kids and if so, will he do half of the child care? Or does he expect to to be a SAHM and if so, will he pay to compensate for that if you later split?
I do think prenups are great way to have that conversation.

You may not want his money now but a few years down the line you may think differently.
Most divorce end up with the wife getting the kids, house and all, and a Hugh amount of money awarded by the csa.
He is right to try and protect what he is bringing to the table.

Get advice from your own solicitor. See how he likes them potatoes.

Kids will be covered with child support if you split he will still have to pay for them Not if he's self-employed, becomes a student or SAHD to the second family.

Just to play devils advocate, and this doesn't really fit your situation as he's high earning etc BUT I have known situations where women have taken men for all their worth (including up to 50% of their future pension!) - all DESPITE them having a higher earning potential than him, so in many situations I can see why someone would want one.

In your situation though, maybe remind him that you need to be left with enough to house and support yourself and any children should things come to the worst, or, failing that, if he won't compromise to something which treats you as an equal, refuse

will you both have life insurance? Or separate premiums?

There should be a sum agreed after each child against how many years you are SAHM.

oh yes, don't use his solicitors. Use your own.

Self employed Or not he will have to pay he will end up in court if not

What’s so funny 😂 I

I’m a SAHM. Married to a high earner. No prenup.

As a thought exercise what happens if you have two kids and then you cheat on him with every bloke in the street.

Kids are school aged. Have their own bedrooms. Go to a good school. You are the main carer. He has a high flying career.

Does he genuinely think his kids should suffer just so he can keep the house? That his pain at the end of the marriage is more significant than his kids having to move to a different school, smaller house etc etc

What’s more important to him, him or his kids?

I would not have children with a man who prioritised his personal finances over his children.

Question for the lawyers here- although prenups aren’t binding now, is it possible that the law could shift towards wider acceptance of them under English law, so that in 20 years from now they may carry more weight

Prenups are legally binding.

It used to be the case that little, if any, weight were given to them.

However, for a number of years (since a ground breaking case) they do have legal effect and tend not to be displaced absent compelling reasons

So let me get this straight.
He wants a pre-nup to protect his very modest savings.
He isn’t considering the 7K you have put into the house.
He’s happy for you to put your career on hold, have and look after his children while his career takes off.
He isn’t willing to have you named as a part owner of the house.
He doesn’t want the assets shared equally.
He wants to further limit your control by insisting you stay in the house should you split, a house tha you’ll only ever own 25% of?

And what is the appeal of this man?
I can’t think of a single reason I would. He is taking you for a ride OP! Is he paying 75% of all bills as well? I highly doubt it.

LEAVE NOW!!!!

sign. But only with accrual - anything earned during marriage is shared, but previous/inherited amounts separate. Then ask him if he has your welfare as well as his own at heart? If he doesn't care how you might be affected by marriage/divorce economics at this point, then he never will.

I think the assumption of working full time once the kids are at school is dangerous to make, particularly if you're tying this into a financial agreement. Many women seem to find it's easier to work full time when the children are young, and becomes more difficult when they start school. This is partly because true full time childcare is easier to find for preschool children. If your school has pre / post school hours childcare (e.g. private school or one with spaces in their out is school club) you may find that it doesn't cover in service days and holidays. You also have to consider sickness - there are times a school child will be sent home while a nursery would cope with a minor "not feeling my best" complaint (because school isn't child care). So many women work part time, rely on family help, or get nannies. Anyway just something to consider, if you want to work full time once the children are at school then both parents need to be equally responsible for covering this, or it should be considered in your pre nup discussions.

I don't actually think you should agree to any pre nup, the idea of protecting such a small amount of theoretical equity in the house - particularly when his views on where you live are taking priority - really seems in poor taste. Particularly as the main purpose of marriage is to legally join your finances. If you're not going to join finances then why not just live together?

The reasons I don't think you should have a prenup are :
The £150k equity is only theoretical, unless he's selling his house soon.
There are other ways to legally protect his larger investment in the house, via the land registry.
It's your first marriage and the start of hopefully decades together
There are no children from previous relationships to consider (even if there were, there are other ways to protect their inheritance)

Basically, getting married says "legally from this day forward we're sharing everything that happens, good or bad" and a prenup is like saying this with your fingers crossed behind your back. You both know the vows are meaningless.

ps the house is only protected for us much as it is worth now - future value is 'accrual'. I don't think he's entirely unreasonable, but he needs to acknowledge the earning/financial sacrifice you'll make in order to have children. Good luck.