DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

Oh just read that isn’t the case. I won’t be getting married then. Couldn’t afford to take the risk

I'll get shot for this - but I agree with your husband to be. Why should you have access to what he's worked for up to now? When I married my husband we agreed that everything we owned up to that point or were due to inherit would be outside of any divorce agreement. In Europe you actually have to sign this when you get married and it makes sense. I'd be gutted if say my husband turned out to be a to55er and walked away with half of everything my parents had worked for and saved for - for me. Also my husband will inherit quite a lot & I can see it from his parents point of view. Why should I have access to assets which I did nothing to earn? You never know how marriage works out - but 1 in 2 get divorced nowadays. I read just today Myleen Klass was advised to sign a prenuptial but didn't and within 6 months they broke up and she almost became an alcoholic over the stress of losing her fortune and realising what a fool she'd been. Assets need to be protected. Would everyone say the same if a woman wrote that she was equity rich and wanted to protect herself in the event of a divorce? I'm sure the advice would be protect yourself financially and ringfence your assets.

@AnnoyedinJanuary

While you have a point to an extent about protecting things like inheritence. I don't think you fully read the OP. OP has already invested into the house (which may not hold the value her DH put into it anyway). He also wants her to sacrifice her career to enable him in his career but yet doesn't want her to benefit financially for it. This is clearly outrageous.

why have all your savings gone if he is worth so much.... I would not mind if it was to protect what he had before merged savings ECT, but would not allow it to effect future earnings otherwise your going to pay later on... Agree to savings before marriage but income after should be 50/50 as your children need protection if he decided to leave or you at any point... I would not sign one if it included future earnings as your income will drop if you have a family. You need security too for your future...

I wouldn't sign one, you should share everything and then your children will inherit from you both. I would never have had children with someone who didn't want to share absolutely everything with me, it puts pressure on your marriage. Does he trust you? Doesn't sound like it.

Agree the prenup for previous assets (def not future!) with the addition that each child he has to transfer 50k of this protected equity to you for your loss of earnings/earning potential if you later divorce.

Or ask for a dowry?

Or marry someone else.

Went there, did you?

What a wise man. I totally understand everything from his side of the fence and if you loved him, you would too. I think your after getting your hands on that equity and that is your problem here, nothing to do with any other reason you have given.

Im sorry but if your both agreed and looking to start a family together then the prenup should be put where its best placed....in the bin hes ok with you being the mother of his chimdren and trusting you carry inevitably his what should most priceless prized possessions so to speak then his finances, house etc shouldnt be an issue ever!!! I dont understand some people, they reallyshould get their prioritys straight and whats important i.e you and your future children and making you as happy as can be not filling you with distrust and uncertainty!

I haven’t read the whole thread (sorry) but I thought I’d offer my own two cents as I’ve been in your partner’s position (i.e. the asking party) albeit the situation is quite different. I’ve had some inheritance and will most likely get some more in due course. I’m in a professional role and work full time. My partner is training to be a teacher so has taken a pay cut so we have very different finances. I also have a daughter from a previous relationship (as does my partner). I asked my other half to sign a prenup before we got married as I want to protect my financial position if we should divorce and, particularly, my daughter. My parents got divorced and it was a mess financially and I don’t want to be put in that position. His view was that he didn’t marry me for money. I have, however, made a commitment to pay him a lump sum if we should divorce (which will hopefully never happen). If you are having a prenup then I suggest it should make adequate provision for you particularly if your intention is to be a stay at home mum or work part time. I should add that I have amended my will so that he has a licence to occupy my properties in the event of my death. He was happy with that. I think you need to look at the terms of the prenup - it should make provision for you if the agreed intention is for you to work PT or stay at home.
Also, while they are legally binding they are persuasive so don’t necessarily believe others who take the view that a court will go behind the agreement. Make sure you also arrange wills so that the property passes to you in the event of his death. Horrible things to think about but a sad reality for some. Good luck OP!

inklepink1 well said

I signed a pre-nup with my ex. He had £100k in a house we bought together and successfully rung fenced it using prenup. Once we had a child together he got increasingly abusive, I got made redundant and ended up technically homeless (my sister who he's isolated me from actually let me stay at hers). He was very charming at the time of the prenup and I'd never have thought he would end up the way he did at the end. He used to tell me it was his house anyway so I felt like I didn't have a proper home. But my name was on mortgage so didn't think I'd get social housing. Anyway when I left he said he would change etc. I asked if we could get the prenup redone so I could get 6 months of him moving out and me staying in house to find my feet in the event of a split. Would have been open to discuss other ways of doing this. He point blank refused to even discuss this. I was very vulnerable. I was happy to sign the prenup as have decent earning power but being made redundant while on maternity leave and him being abusive to me wasn't something I'd banked on. He was lovely to me when we first met. I'd agree to sign a prenup but make it more protective of me when kids come along if I had my time again. I don't expect to be bank rolled and never would have taken his money from before we met but I ended up in a very bad unforseen situation. Of course if I'd read the relationships board back then I might have been better able to spot the signs. Good luck.

Pre nup = I don't believe this will last. I would not be marrying him.

There was a post on here about husband hiding his assets after seeking a divorce from his wife after X amount of years married and two kids he decides he is not happy. Please protect yourself. A 10/10 guy to me is one that would put assets in my name for a rainy day so me and the kids are looked after. Women are sacrifices we stop working to look after the family, the fact that you have used your savings to go towards marrying him and improving a home that he is trying to protect from you with a prenup, says a lot. All the best OP.

I’ve read this whole thing and still don’t understand what on earth is unfair about protecting assets accrued before the marriage! It’s incredibly sensible. He didn’t even know you existed when he bought that house, why should you be entitled to any of it? I would do exactly the same as him. But you need to get your savings back and protect any assets/inheritance of your own as well. Marriage is a meal ticket for far too many people, and it shouldn’t be about that

*sacrificers

Well op needs to be “wise lady” and bill mr tight pants for all the lovely “free “‘childcare he will receive over the years. He just wants to get his hands on her free labour

Given that you will be working PT and raising his children, the fact he’s hell bent on protecting his 150k speaks volumes. I’ve given up work entirely and raised our children, unable to therefore contribute to the pot in terms of cash, yet is expect the event of a separation to split things evenly, as we are a team. I put the biggest share in to our first house deposit yet never had this documented anywhere. Marriages/relationships aren’t always equal in terms of money, and to be honest you can’t ever quantify the childcare aspect you provide for ‘your’ children...

Read your update HappyHattie but I don't think it sounds great and urge you to please see your a solicitor of your own. Your DP's solicitor cannot possibly represent your interests as well as his so you are effectively agreeing to something without legal advice.

I think you will need more capital out of any house sale just in case your career after kids does not go as well as you hope it will and you never earn really good money again? What if, god forbid, you become ill or one of your kids is unwell?

I don't think a solicitor of your own would let you sign something like this.

Please take some more time to think it over and see your own solicitor

OP this is a terrible deal, don't do it.

As pp have said getting 25% of future equity (so not even of tge original 150k) id grossly unfair as if you were to divorce in 20 years time that 150k could then be worth £1m (for example) which you've put 20 years of work into paying off the mortgage etc (either through work or sacrificing your career potential to raise your kids) but you'd still only be entitled to 25%. Argh, it is just horrendous.

If he is so bothered about protecting his £150k then I think you should come to an agreement where the proportion your entitled to grows for every year youre married (so eg within 5 years you're entitled to 50%) but that the agreement becomes null and void the minute you have your first child.

Btw, I'm not against prenups in principle but it has to be vaguely fair.

If he wants a prenup then fine but you've got to find a lawyer who is going to play really hard ball (whoch he should be paying for as it's him that wants it). Don't be surprised if this sours your relationship and the marriage never happens though, I'd start building your own savings up so you're in a better position if the relationship ends.

By the way, having £150k equity in a house doesn't make him Gordon Gecko, it's what you'd expect if you are a professional earning good money in your early 30s.

"I’m bright and I had a solid career in London between 18-24 I moved home to do my masters with the intention of going back afterwards and really advancing my career.
DP is fixed here because of his job. He could ask for a job down south but;

A- he doesn’t want to
B- he would be VERY unlikely to get one as they allocate area based on priority. So if you want a desirable area like London you have to either be from London or have children at school in the area - they don’t accept ‘my wife wants to work there’"

So you've already given up your career for him. Before having children. Before being married, even. Not the most sensible decision.

He wants to protect his £150k and whatnot, so you you should prioritise your career, because you certainly can't rely on him sharing his assets with you.

Whatever happens in the relationship, you're going to want a home (not just his home, something you own jointly or by yourself) and a pension. If you want to be a SAHM or work part time for a while, you really really need to prioritise earning as much as you can to make up for the shortfall in earnings and pension contributions.

"My £7k savings went into the ‘pot’ they did get used on some stuff we needed- however our joint savings account currently has about £22k in it (approx £15k both our wages and £7k family contributions for wedding)"

Ok so discount the wedding contributions so they can be repaid if it gets called off and take your half of the savings, put it into your own account. That's £7.5k which is just over what you started with.

If you want to stay with him I suggest postponing the wedding and getting couple's counselling.

I think a prenup and wedding are a bad idea.

Prenups for millionaires - fair enough. But for most people, no.

I agree Annoyed. In his position I would be doing the same. If my partner refused to sign then it's a clear indication that they clearly wanted the assets marriage came with.

You don't have to go part time, it's a choice. One something' the higher earner often has no say in. I don't buy the enabling a career either, most of the time the other person was already doing the job anyway.

You need to have a claimise saying that he will reimburse you for lost earnings and/or will provide you with ££ amount in the event of a divorce

Personally I hate the idea of one & certainly wouldn’t have married my dh if he suggested it.

My advice is this.
Before you even talk about a pre nup...you both need to have several long and possibly difficult talks about what money means to you both. It's possible that you both have very different experiences of money and emotions bound up with security and trust around money. Until you are really both very open and honest about that...really, really discuss and accept your partners interpretation on money in general...it can be a real eye opener...money is hard to discuss...but it absolutely is crucial if you intend to spend the next 50 years with someone that you both understand how the other thinks about money( not 'his' money or 'your' money...but money in general). How they feel about budgetting and free spending. What they feel about debt...how loans or mortgages make them feel...how investing in property in the future...savings ...pensions...what worries them about money...what would be a financial situation they couldnt tolerate ? How long do you/he see supporting each other through a long/ short period when the other partner cant earn? How much is too much ? A true loving life partner will be honest and glad you both had the courage to deal with this now..so you can go forward together knowing how each other feel about money. You may feel after that you either 1) dont need a prenup or 2) your feelings are still so far apart you certainly both want one.

I heartily wish I had had those conversations with my soon to be ex. Before we married.
My story is long and dreadful. I speak as a woman who has suffered significantly because of opposing financial thinking and secrecy over money - in a 22 year marriage ( now over).

I didnt have those important discussions about money with the person I intended to marry, and I should have done so.