DP wants a prenup!

[HappyHattie]

I’ve taken legal advice so fully understand how they do/don’t work- not looking for technical advice just opinions on whether IABU??

I am 27 DP is 32 - he earns 3x my salary. (mine is respectable and I’ve just completed a masters so will increase).

DP owned his home with about £150k of equity before we met. (He paid top end of the asking price so has not gained value and may lose a bit post Brexit)

Anyway we’re financially merged- joint accounts- I’ve never held anything back from him- including my £7k of savings when I moved in. (I know I still don’t match his income but still)

He did mention getting something in writing to protect his £150k much earlier in the relationship - fine, I was happy with that- my sibling has one as he had a large inheritance- I’ve always been independent!

But now we’re actually getting married - my £7k of savings has been swallowed up, I’m not yet named on the mortgage and we’re both wanting to start a family post wedding (2-3 kids).

The plan is I’ll drop down to PT - only today whilst talking it through with a solicitor did I realise how vulnerable I’ll be leaving myself!

I don’t want to have small children and work FT (my career is demanding and DP whilst eager to help is very much consumed by his career and often works away for short periods) I work with so many women who try to juggle this and their lives look miserable! I’d rather not have children than live like that!

So this evening I’ve been really deflated- feeling like I’m getting the shit end of the stick really - I’m not after his money (not at all) but equally I don’t really want to be drafting up a 14 page prenup which even the solicitor said ‘is likely to get quite complicated’

It also seems like it’s going to escalate from ‘protecting the £150k’ to also including inheritance, pensions, earnings...etc.

I didn’t sign up for not being a ‘team’ if I wanted to build a financial future alone - I wouldn’t be getting married.

I’m probably ABU 😞 but would appreciate some opinions!

(DP is a wonderful guy - honestly 10/10 on everything else but he had a really bad experience as a teen when he lost his parent and their very recent new spouse tried to take everything- think this has made him overly cautious)

Given his attitude, you would be crazy to put yourself in such a vulnerable position of having kids and earning less.

He isn’t a 10/10 guy if he thinks that supporting his career at your expense is fair. This man has made it very clear that he is the MVP in your relationship.

How have you not maintained your savings? Surely, if you’re are on a good salary and sharing expenses that you would have more disposable income to save. Your savings didn’t evaporate into the ether, every penny from them was voluntarily spent.

Date the man but don’t marry or have kids with him.

@sayit

I get that but DP does stand to get a lot more than me- whilst I give up a lot more than him!

Also him having his money changes the way he behaves (for example already having his home and not wanting to move) so actually I feel like I’ll have less opportunity to gain and build with him than I would in a normal 50/50 relationship

Batsarecool - so let’s say you inherited £500k (tho I will say I am potentially talking about more) from your DP, things went south and your DH walked away with half of that in a divorce therefore away from your DC in any situation including if he got married/had more children (there was a thread in the last day or so about someone hoping their ex would leave money to their mutual DC not his new family). You would see that as fair?

That's marriage, sayitwithcake.

You call it 'his home' not 'our home'.
Looks like you are already feeling like a second class citizen in your relationship.

Nobody walks down the aisle thinking 'this is gonna end in divorce'.
Yet it does happen.

He is understandably cautious due to what happened as a teen.
I would probably feel the same as him tbh. At least if you draw up this together you are fully open about the division and protection of assets and are an open book before marriage. It doesn't mean he doesn't love or trust you but he doesn't want to tempt fate. I am not a high earner btw but it's the law of sod i do not trust.

I think he is wise and honest.

It's not romantic but then neither is acrimonius divorce. He is being open and pragmatic. I would at least go through it with him.

Well from his perspective he had 150k and you had 7k when you got together.

You could get married, have a kid, and walk away with 75k plus maintenance, which sounds like basically what happened to his family once already.

Rather than a pre-nup it sounds like you might be better off getting a witnessed agreement saying that you agree not to go after the 150k already sunk into the house in case of divorce, but anything else from this point on is 50-50 just like any other case. I'd strongly recommend you spend a lot more time talking to him about it.

sayitwithcake I have already inherited (not that amount but I feel the amount is irrelevant) and yes it has been used for joint things and thus if we were to divorce my DH has benefited 50%. I have no issues with that at all. If I didn't want my DH to benefit then I would be thinking and planning divorce before that happened because I am of the view that to marry then you combine finances. We have joint and seperate fun money but equally all of our money is shared and would be in the pot if we were to divorce.

I quite like the idea of a prenup. DH and i were broke when we got married so didnt need one.

You agree, when you are being kind and loving to each other how it will be fair to split the important technicalities should the worst ever come to pass. I won't name all the ways in which horrible circumstances through no ones fault can drive a wedge and reasonable happy couples can become vicious defensive bull dogs once the territory and the "mine"and "yours" start after the split.

Start again, agree that you'd like to protect his initial home. Ask to seek legal advice together so you can get a document drawn up that you can work through together and then seek independent legal advice on it's ramifications.

Just because he has a 14 page prenup, and even if you didn't object to one in general - it doesn't mean you have to like the first protectionist one.

'The current suggestion is that we draw a line upon the point of meeting and everything before that remains his whilst everything after is split equally'

I actually think that's pretty fair

I understand why you might be hesitant OP, I was in a very similar situation to you, but even more polarised. DH was earning over 200k, has a few properties etc and I had 30k in debt and nothing to show for it but a pretty sofa, a failed business and an enviable shoe collection...

When we got engaged, we got a prenup but it relates purely to the businesses he owns and operates and any of the business related assets which have been catalogued I.e., one of the properties he owns personally is used by one of his businesses as an office so that would be protected.
We are both of the same opinion as you that a marriage is a total commitment and by doing so you sort of just have to take that risk if you're the one with the assets. As the one who doesn't work and essentially don't have anything of my own, it was important to me too to know that I wouldn't ever be left stranded if god forbid something did happen to our marriage.

I would refuse to marry or start a family with anyone who wanted a prenup. He is not a bloody millionaire. Your money should be pooled for both of you.

sayitwithcake - say you inherit £5million. What are you going to do with it that doesnt impact your DH? Buy a new house and have it only in your name? Go on holidays alone? Invest it in your pension and then only pay half for dinner when you're at the pub and ask DH to get his share? Invest elsewhere and then never actually spend it? Joyless.

Are you sure the marriage (assuming you go ahead with it) isn't going to be one big financial transaction for him?
I'd be worried that he's going to control all the finances and see all the money as 'his money' once you have children (or even before seeing as you have no savings left) or cut down to part time work.
I can't believe he's protecting his pension, his earnings, inheritances...Who does this when they are planning children together!
You'll certainly be very vulnerable once you have a child, and he clearly doesn't trust you or have your long term interests at heart. That must be very hurtful for you.
I'd be very wary of signing any prenup and even of going ahead with a marriage until he could demonstrate a better understanding of what a more equal partnership actually means.

Seriously, don't make yourself this financially vulnerable. You should not have spent your £7k savings. Date and have fun, but do not marry or have kids with this man. There are so many red flags here that I worry for you if you do go ahead and marry/have kids.

So he's already happy for your savings to be run down despite the fact that he has a fuckton more in the way of savings and assets? How many other ways is he training you to think of yourself as the lesser person in the partnership; as someone who should be grateful that he's condescended to marry you? How many times do you let him have things his way because 'life's too short to argue about trivial things' - only every single time you disagree about something 'trivial', he wins?
He thinks you are worth less than him. He'll not only 'agree' that you should be SAHM when the DC arrive, he will make sure that everything is in place for him to be able to replace you with a different woman when he gets bored with you.

Is he only concerned with the £150,000 equity? If so, a declaration of trust in respect of the property might be worth considering, if you are planning to have your name on the deeds. You would become tenants in common in unequal shares, with him receiving £150,000 with the remaining proceeds being split equally.

Of course, this is only a possibility if he is only concerned with his equity, but it may be worth presenting the idea to him or talking it through with a solicitor. It will be a lot cheaper than a prenup. We charge about £600 for a trust deed.

Interestingly I don't know what people get married for if they don't want to be part of a team where assets and finances are shared.

Maybe because a large percentage of marriages end in divorce? Protecting yourself may not sound romantic but it is sensible. OP is worried about protecting herself and not being financially vulnerable in the future and her future DH is doing the same.

It seems to be a very cultural thing that I've noticed on here: if you are married you must share all of your assets and earnings or what's the point of being together? Well, I could list hundreds of reasons why my DH and I are together that don't include needing to pool all our money and debts. We aren't any less a team because we have separate accounts for our own spends.

We have a Separate Property agreement (we live abroad where they give you the choice when you get married). We still have a joint account for bills, etc but it protects me from liability for debts he accrued from bad decisions and also means that, heaven forbid it didn't work out, the divorce would be "cleaner". That doesn't mean we love each other any less or expect to divorce - it's called being sensible.

OP - Why have your 7k savings gone? Shouldn’t joint expenditure be proportional to what each person brings? Why has he still got his 150k equity but your 7k saving been used just because it is liquid? The wedding is a joint thing, so actually he should give you 2.5-5k of his assets to make sure spending is in proportion.

Kids are a different kettle of fish. You need to discuss both your expectations of childcare/education etc - views on private education, when you might return to work FT (if ever). Nothing is necessarily right or wrong - u just need to be on same page and make sure no one is financially vulnerable.

custard Except when kids are in the mix they matter far more than "protecting your assets".
And there are so many women who when they have kids and get divorced, find themselves living in poverty, unable to get a well paid job because they sahm during the early years. While their ex is earning good money.

I'd really reconsider marrying him. Firstly, get him to give you back your savings. Then if going ahead, put in a clause about maintenance, minimum child support and compensation of loss of earnings while sacrificing your career and salary. Use an independent solicitor. Any recommendations from his family will be in his best interests not yours.

I have been divorced and as I was the one that had the better projected future earnings I walked away with less than he did. I still didn't have a prenup though for me second marriage as my view remains that to marry its about combining everything together.

Bloody hell. This is bonkers. I have a lot of property - some from before meeting DP and some I am accumulating along the way. The property I owned when we met was worth almost 400K and his was worth about 80K. It didn't even cross my mind to "protect" my property. Sure, property I purchase now is in my name and property he purchases is in his but that's more to do with tax and if one of us dies etc than anything. We also have totally separate savings accounts and current accounts. Never saw the point of merging - it's always worked for us. I think not trusting over finances is something that would really turn me off someone. My previous long term partner did a good one on me and I lost a fair bit of cash by giving him money for things - in the thousands. It doesn't mean I now don't trust my current partner. They are different people. Thank God.

ProfessorCustard - I'm sure you could list lots of reasons you and your DH are together. But why are you married? Why not just be partners?

And the fact that your £7k savings have already gone, shows that he is putting himself first.