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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Daughter kicked off bus aibu

812 replies

user1471461798 · 16/01/2019 19:59

Just wondered what everyone’s thoughts on this was? 17 year old daughter dropped off at the bus stop at 6.44 this morning, she had lost her lanyard with her bus pass on, so was going into college to get a temporary pass, we knew it was at home somewhere. Got on, sat down, the bus driver then asked to see everyone’s pass.. Doesn’t do this every day- specific bus only for her college.( 1st stop in the morning, last stop at night). obviously she didn’t have it, explained and he told her to get off the bus, she asked if she could just go to college and get a temporary pass. ( I know this is true as her friend told her mother the same ).

She then had to walk over a mile in the dark and rain, We had all left for work. also she has a broken arm, so had to carry bags as well. We have asked for an explanation from both the bus company and college, no reply from coach, but college have said the driver was correct!
I feel the coach company had a duty of care to make sure she was safe. What is everyone’s thoughts please?
Maybe a while getting back to everyone, going to the cinema now😊

OP posts:
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9
Carrie80 · 19/01/2019 05:03

Did not think I needed to as I was of the opinion people here had common sense

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-18373422&ved=2ahUKEwjZwPDSiPnfAhUxrXEKHSH6CfUQFjANegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2l-Y3-VzfYtTiwRJOAY8kv" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-18373422&ved=2ahUKEwjZwPDSiPnfAhUxrXEKHSH6CfUQFjANegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2l-Y3-VzfYtTiwRJOAY8kv

mathanxiety · 19/01/2019 05:04

I think she needed to tell him she didn't have a pass, not because he might check but because she was in the wrong by not having a pass. He could have then made a decision about whether or not to let her on.

Bullshit, Marcopront.

She correctly understood that the lanyard indicated payment made in advance for one month of travel, understood also that the driver normally didn't bother with his duty to check, and unfortunately relied on the driver having an IQ higher than his shoe size that would have enabled him to grasp that it isn't the lanyard itself that gives students permission to ride on the bus for one month, but the payment, in advance, of £70.

I would like to know how a driver safely checks lanyards on a bus that has four passengers aboard while presumably on the road en route to the college. If he randomly checks when students are seated, then he isn't relying on checking the passes as students board the bus. He is also not paying attention to the road if this is his modus operandi.

If his random checks do involve checking students as they board then the DD was perfectly justified in her assumption that he had let her on board to travel without a pass check.

mathanxiety · 19/01/2019 05:11

The blame lies 100% with the rapist does it not?

Not 50:50 rapist:driver
Not the fault of a bouncer who removed a drunk woman from a nightclub or bar.

Nope, you are wrong.
The blame is apportioned primarily to the rapist, but also to those who caused a situation in which a woman is left in danger, and also among those who stand by and do not intervene, and I urge you to read the article posted by Carrie80 and reflect on the meaning of the term "common sense" with reference to the following proposition:
There is no infraction of any rule that can justify putting anyone in danger of being hit by a car or raped.

And incidentally, many night clubs and pubs understand this and do not throw inebriated young women out onto city streets for this exact reason.

marcopront · 19/01/2019 05:30

She correctly understood that the lanyard indicated payment made in advance for one month of travel,

The lanyard is the receipt. It is proof she has paid. So yes he has a right to check she has it. There are four students who get on where she does but others get on later.

marcopront · 19/01/2019 05:35

The blame is apportioned primarily to the rapist, but also to those who caused a situation in which a woman is left in danger,

If you extend this argument, it becomes victim blaming.

Scenario 1 : A taxi drops a woman in a dodgy area because she has no money and she is raped.
Who is at fault? You seem to be saying the taxi driver.

Scenario 2 : Another woman chooses to walk in the same area and she is raped.
Who is at fault?

In both cases it is100% the rapist.

mathanxiety · 19/01/2019 05:46
  1. Yes, it is the receipt, and it indicates the same thing every day he checks, because the payment is made in advance at the start of the month. If he checked on Tuesday the 4th and Wednesday the 18th and Thursday the 27th it is still the same monthly payment.

The only time he actually needs to check it is right at the start of the month.

  1. Your silly and completely misconceived rape 'argument' is not worthy of consideration.
GySgtHartman · 19/01/2019 05:51

Your silly and completely misconceived rape 'argument' is not worthy of consideration.

But it is an extension of what you are saying.

If a woman chooses to walk home she is not at fault.

If she walks home because she has no money for a taxi/bus etc the some of the blame can be apportioned to the driver that didn't let her ride for free.

TheLittleDogLaughed · 19/01/2019 06:00

I’m with you mathanxiety

The driver didn’t do his job properly as he rarely checked passes so the dd was right to assume he wouldn’t. He should never have left her on her own like that with a broken arm - what did he think she was going to do?

And so yes, if something had happened to her he would definitely have been held accountable as he should be.

mathanxiety · 19/01/2019 06:17

It's 100% not an extension of what I am saying about rape, for the simple reason that in Scenario 1 the driver threw the woman out of the cab and in the other Scenario the woman walked of her own volition in the area where she was raped.

In both cases the rapist committed the rape and is responsible for that but in one case the driver could have kept the woman out of danger but did not. He could have driven to an ATM. He could have driven to a well lit area. He put money ahead of all other considerations and because of that he failed as a human being and his conscience should keep him awake at night for the rest of his life.

Not sure why you and Marco are being so obtuse here.

marcopront · 19/01/2019 06:30

So by extension the woman could have kept herself out of danger and she didn't.
In both cases a person other than the rapist was responsible for the woman being there. In one case you blame that person, in the other you don't.

GySgtHartman · 19/01/2019 06:43

Because you are suggesting that women take no responsibility for themselves.

That they if they don't keep money/travel card in their purse responsibility for their safety suddenly moves onto someone else.

nicorjinders · 19/01/2019 08:14

"Hopefully this will be a lesson about not losing things"

"Your daughter's safety is not their concern"

This would be an incredible thing to say, even if it were true. As it is, a prospective customer's safety is their legal responsibility as numerous cases have shown.

Jeez, there are some mean spirited, sanctimonious people around.

So, this is a college specific bus and any college student gets a pass, a small number of students use the bus and your daughter has been a regular until she lost her pass. The driver might be technically correct but it's an act of remarkable jobworthiness. And the time and darkness do make this a safety consideration as well.

YANBU

Itssosunnyout · 19/01/2019 08:33

Yabu OP your daughter lost her lanyard so alternatives should have been made to get to college. She isn't a child anymore as she's at college. She should have called the college and arranged a temporary pass or authorisation email to provide the driver. Its no different to getting on the train and losing your ticket before showing the conductor.

Yes its harsh that she had to walk in the rain with a broken arm. But her legs weren't broken that she can't walk and I'm sure she would have worn a jacket that day.

For those who have talked about rape. It can happen at any time of the day. The blame is on the rapist.

Its really awful that some people and OP are saying that the driver would be responsible for what happened to her.
Ultimately nothing has happened apart from her getting wet and having to walk.

I live in a rural area too and here its normal to walk to places and to value transport links as they are minimal. So you'd never expect to get a pass and wouldn't put the driver in that position.

mathanxiety · 19/01/2019 09:05

There is no 'by extension', Marco.

Society (by means of individuals and through its institutions, agents and agencies) has a duty to make sure men don't rape.

Women should be able to walk anywhere without fear. The fact that we do fear and that the crime of rape is frequently committed is an indictment on society but it is mostly an indictment on those sections of society and its institutions, agents and agencies that continue to promote the idea that hatred of, fear of and violence against women are acceptable or even a good and necessary thing.

In both cases a person other than the rapist was responsible for the woman being there. In one case you blame that person, in the other you don't.
Do you find twisting yourself into a pretzel shape uncomfortable?
Let's try this again GySgtHartman.
In Scenario 1 the woman is thrown out of the taxi in a place and at a time which any person with the smallest speck of cop on would understand to be a bad place and a bad time for a woman, reality being what it is. That person is therefore equally as morally responsible for the crime that followed as the rapist was because it was his will that she was there, not hers - the woman was there against her will. She wanted to stay in the taxi and continue to her destination. He chose to operate according to s set of values directly opposed to concern when he threw her out of the taxi.
Would she have been raped that night if he had made a different choice?

In the second Scenario, the woman chose to walk there as is her right, and it is entirely the fault of the rapist (and the fault of society that encourages and permits the crime of rape) that she was raped. She has an inalienable right to walk where she chooses to walk.

you are suggesting that women take no responsibility for themselves.
That they if they don't keep money/travel card in their purse responsibility for their safety suddenly moves onto someone else.
GySgtHartman - I repeat, women have an inalienable right to walk wherever they wish to walk, any time, day or night.

This is because they are equal under the law and in possession of civil and human rights. It is not the fault of a woman if a criminal rapes them. Men do not own or rule certain patches of the city. Women do not owe men any type of behaviour or deportment and if they don't comply then they can be raped - they don't have to be cold stone sober 24/7 or dressed like great aunt Maud on a solemn occasion, etc.

Responsibility for rape culture extends to us all, but in specific cases of rape danger or rape likelihood, if a driver or a bouncer leaves a woman in a position where she is in danger then yes, that driver or bouncer is equally as morally responsible as the rapist is for whatever happens after that.

To suggest that nobody has any responsibility to anyone else, that nobody has any agency, that nobody should engage common sense or act out of concern for the welfare of anyone else, that doggedly sticking to the rules is any justification for abdication of the moral requirement of common decency of one human being towards another is to stray into the territory of 'I was only following orders'. (Sorry, yes, Godwin's law and all that.)

TheLittleDogLaughed · 19/01/2019 09:09

itssosunnyout why would she need an authorisation email when she sees the driver every day? This is actually the real world with real people in it not some officious police state.

If something had happened to her, an accident or an attack, the driver would have been questioned as to his motives for leaving a vulnerable young woman alone in the dark and his explanation would make him look like a jobsworth having a bad day and picking on someone.

mathanxiety · 19/01/2019 09:15

itssosunnyout the lanyard indicates that a month's travel has been paid for in advance. He saw it a few days previously.

joanmcc · 19/01/2019 09:44

@mathanxiety - I demand you pay for my taxi everywhere or that makes you a rapist. I'm not sure how, but it's your logic, not mine. I'll DM you my paypal.

TheLittleDogLaughed · 19/01/2019 10:15

joanmcc seriously? I’ve heard some tosh on here but how the hell did you reach that conclusion? I don’t think anyone yet has suggested the bus driver is a rapist! 😂😂😂

marcopront · 19/01/2019 10:22

@joanmcc
You don't need mathanxiety to send you money. You just get on the bus with some money and they will take you where you like, otherwise they are responsible if you get attacked.

BoneyBackJefferson · 19/01/2019 10:34

mathanxiety
2. Your silly and completely misconceived rape 'argument' is not worthy of consideration.

But this part of the argument was brought up by those calling the bus driver all sorts of names. by your logic, as you have the same view of the driver it is your argument not the point of those that are arguing against you.

marcopront · 19/01/2019 10:48

Responsibility for rape culture extends to us all, but in specific cases of rape danger or rape likelihood, if a driver or a bouncer leaves a woman in a position where she is in danger then yes, that driver or bouncer is equally as morally responsible as the rapist is for whatever happens after that.

Just to clarify however if a woman puts herself a position where she is danger, she is not responsible for what happens after that.

FrancisCrawford · 19/01/2019 11:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GySgtHartman · 19/01/2019 11:08

I don’t think anyone yet has suggested the bus driver is a rapist!

No but mathanxiety believes that he shares responsibility

TheLittleDogLaughed · 19/01/2019 11:44

Like I said, after he kicked her off the bus IF anything had happened to her, his reasons for removing a 17 year old girl with a broken arm in the dark would be questioned. And I’m not sure any of the reasons anyone is giving to defend his behaviour would be enough to explain putting a child at risk just so he could make a point to the other kids on the bus. He was very lucky she got home safely.

Lifeofsmiley · 19/01/2019 12:04

math, that is totally ott! Advising the op to contact a solicitor to get them to write to the college and bus company.
Completely unnecessary and a sign of blaming everyone else.

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