AIBU to say that some people just cannot work full time or even at all?

[thebeesknees123]

This does seem to be an age old discussion among parents, particularly among women with young children.

I can think of various reasons why people can't work:

Just had a baby and breastfeeding
Mental or physical health conditions
Caring responsibilities - e.g. elderly relative
The money does not cover childcare/commute expenses

Personally, I do work (30 hours per week) but I am lucky in that it is shifts around the school so I don't have childcare costs. I would never slate someone who couldn't find something suitable for their needs or pressure them to take something that is going to cause them undue stress because they are put in a position where they are forced to be unreliable, which, frankly, I would be if I were forced to work 9 to 5.

I think we have a very rigid approach to work in most cases. EVERYONE has to work set hours. I can understand it in certain sectors, but I think in others it matters less. Some peoples life's are incompatible with such hours, young mothers, carers, certain health conditions. That said most employers are fairly flexible nowadays.

Yeh, I’m in the ‘money does not cover childcare’ camp. DD is 15mo and I’m a SAHM. If I was working it would be purely to cover the cost of childcare, seems pointless. Lucky we can survive comfortably on DHs wage.

I'd love to work part time doing something specific (not just any job) but it's very rare to find work that is part time and it usually asks for lots of experience. Every year I am older with minimal experience but I can't just go full time for a bit to build it because my kids are young and frankly I don't want to basically pick them up from nursery and put them straight to bed.

Might be making myself permanently unemployable doing this but I am not willing to compromise - part time or nothing I'm afraid.

My husband is quite happy to support me but I'd be lying if I said it doesn't effect my self esteem. 🤷

It's difficult, though, because I know a couple of people who simply choose not to. One has depression and anxiety, and whilst I'd never do them down for not working with those conditions, I also don't think staying at home all day every day is doing his mental health any good; it's almost catch 22.

The other one is my sister. She's never worked a day in her life. She's 35 this summer and I look at her and wonder how she's ended up that way when the rest of us have a pretty strong work ethic. Essentially she's dated a long line of well-off partners who've taken care of her financially but always treated her quite poorly. It doesn't seem a very nice life, tbh.

I agree about the unreliability thing; I worked in finance for a long time til DS13 went to school. I retrained to teach, but am only part time because I simply have to give more of myself to him and DS8 than I could do if I worked full time. For some people they don't have the luxury of being able to select their hours and that's when you end up with people not giving their best.

I had a friend who claimed she couldn't work full time as it gave her stress juggling school age children and a job. Her two daughters are 16 and 18 now and she's still only working 2.5 days a week - mind you her husband earns well over £100k so they could afford it.

It's perfectly fine not to want to work full time. Why should we? Given how utterly pointless many jobs are - the sort of cubicle-mouse role where you might actually complete about 3 hours worth of 'work' in an 8 hour day but you have to be there, for example. And that';s without the number of jobs which are exhausting and miserable and hugely underpaid. A lot of people are seeing through the bullshit and rejecting the idea that they should wear themselves out to line someone else's pockets. Hence all the bullshit scaremongering about 'benefit scroungers' and 'workshyness' being some kind of mental illness - the system is set up to depend on exploiting people for the benefit of large corporations, so everyone has to be coerced into believing the idea that a 'work ethic' (ie a willingness to obey and not complain and accept the lowest wages an employer can get away with) is a virtue.

I have aspergers and can only work part time. If I worked full time, I'd no longer be here, if you catch my drift. I'm a good employee though, have an excellent reputation and work very hard when I'm there.

Given how utterly pointless many jobs are - the sort of cubicle-mouse role where you might actually complete about 3 hours worth of 'work' in an 8 hour day but you have to be there, for example

Goodness yes, this.

@nopslide
That is a don't want to work full time not a can't work full time in my opinion. While you are perfected entitled to have the view that you don't want your children in childcare for long hours if your family can afford that choice the state should not be expected to fund it in the same way as they should fund the genuinely unable to work.

I don't work. I haven't for years because my mental health is awful. Even doing "nice" things like seeing friends or going to the cinema leaves me needing a lot of recovery time. I get a lot of judgment for it, including people suggesting that it would help my mental health if I worked because it can't be good being stuck at home all the time - well I tried that and it didn't help, in fact it made me extremely ill (think suicidal).

This tiny, stilted life isn't what I had planned for us but it's the only one I have. I'd much rather be well and be able to work and use my brain properly, but that's not my lot.

What SGB said.

@user139328237

Who said anything about “the state funding it”?

If I was working it would be purely to cover the cost of childcare, seems pointless

I think situations like this are where the grey area falls, because it conveys a belief that the only benefit of working is salary.

Of course, for some people this is true, but for others, the value of work is partly derived from the fact that they are self-sufficient. Many women who have ended up divorced and unable to get back into a career because they gave up work would tell you that they wish they hadn't, even though a previous salary would have only just covered childcare and commute etc.

Technically btw the state probably make a loss on min wage work in terms of childcare. They pay out tax credits. Get minimal tax in return and subsidise the childcare.

I'm having to look for work before starting university. It's a little frustrating as I'm still doing intensive therapy work, will have to settle my 3 year old DD with new potentially full time childcare for 6 months, and be paid out roughly the same amount in benefits as minimum wage won't pay much more than childcare, as a stop gap until I start studying for a career that will ultimately see me pay back to society sufficiently in taxes anyway.

I don't understand why it's so necessary to work in order to have value. It's also devaluing my role as primary carer of my DD. Why is it better value for the state to pay a childminder to look after her while I go to work for a random job that will only last 6 months, when I could get the same benefits paid to me, keep that close contact going, and use that security to help the separation when she starts school full time and I start uni full time? It's all so arbitrary.

I think a huge part of it is how expensive and generally inflexible childcare in this country is, without a corresponding increase in quality. I look at friends in Europe and esp. Scandinavia, with nursery fees capped at E3/400 per month... much easier to return to work, retrain, generally participate in the labour market.

I went self-employed before having DD, so I could be around without totally sacrificing my career. But it's an extreme solution.

Another what SGB said. The reasons people might not work are too many and varied to go into, so I think saying 'some people just cannot work full time' should cover it really.

Of course, for some people this is true, but for others, the value of work is partly derived from the fact that they are self-sufficient. Many women who have ended up divorced and unable to get back into a career because they gave up work would tell you that they wish they hadn't, even though a previous salary would have only just covered childcare and commute etc.

You can see though why spending every day at some tedious or unpleasant job purely for the sake of some nebulous self sufficiency that may never be realised while in the actual here and now receiving no tangible benefits might be somewhat unmotivating though right?

Yes of course some people can't work because of caring responsibilities or because they are too unwell to work. However there is a lot of help out there with childcare costs ( if you can get them paid ! ) or couples can work around each other as we did for many years. It's just that many people don't want to consider looking at different options.

it conveys a belief that the only benefit of working is salary.

What other benefit would there be? I can’t think of anything else that you’d prioritise above spending time with your kids. You work if you have to because you need the money (assuming you’re one of the lucky ones whose salary would cover the cost of childcare).

or couples can work around each other as we did for many years. It's just that many people don't want to consider looking at different options.

Why on earth would a couple put themselves through that if they could afford not to?

I have two children at home and two in school and I would find it impossible. When my youngest two kids are in school I will only be able to work 10-2 Monday to Friday as I have no one to take the kids to and from school and my husband works full time but does the occasional weekend.
I am hoping there is a way I can work in a few years. Husband is on 18k and we get benefits top up too, but they mess you around and I want to stop relying on them.

So what is your point?

We work to earn money to live. We all need to do that. If we can't work then we either reduce our living costs, self-fund or state-fund.

The debate that we have as individuals is up to us. The debate we have as a society is how we best ensure that the division of work/non-work is fair, - who does the work, who pays, who spends etc)

I struggle massively but there's no other option. I need money to live so I have a FT job of 40hrs, just quit my PT job which was 5-15hrs as I was too tired
Had cauda equina spinal surgery, and I have a condition which leaves me very immunocompromised, the meds have shit side effects and I'm always tired 🤷🏽‍♀️ but what else can you do?
I'm not entitled to any benefits or even free prescriptions for my injections

It's difficult, though, because I know a couple of people who simply choose not to. One has depression and anxiety, This is an example of why it's not as simple as "people should work". It may do this person good to go out to work and get some structure to their day, but if their depression and anxiety is bad enough to affect their ability to work, then they're going to struggle to find an employer willing to take them on.