AIBU to say that some people just cannot work full time or even at all?

[thebeesknees123]

This does seem to be an age old discussion among parents, particularly among women with young children.

I can think of various reasons why people can't work:

Just had a baby and breastfeeding
Mental or physical health conditions
Caring responsibilities - e.g. elderly relative
The money does not cover childcare/commute expenses

Personally, I do work (30 hours per week) but I am lucky in that it is shifts around the school so I don't have childcare costs. I would never slate someone who couldn't find something suitable for their needs or pressure them to take something that is going to cause them undue stress because they are put in a position where they are forced to be unreliable, which, frankly, I would be if I were forced to work 9 to 5.

A lot of people are confusing ‘working’ with ‘having a job’.

They are not the same thing.

Work is absolutely possible and preferable for most people.

Jobs, not so much.

If I weren't attractive enough to an employer to be able to command suitable hours and terms, I might not be able to work at all

This is me. I cannot work full time due to disability caused by several health conditions. I have never not worked, but it's getting harder and harder to stay in work due to austerity and employers demanding all staff do full time +++ and "flexible working" now seems to mean the employee must be willing to work their hours any time over 24/7

I work part time because I am highly skilled and experienced and employers are willing to put up with my disability for them.

If I didn't have the skills or the experience I would be bottom of the heap and probably unemployable.

Wasn't she worried about his pension? Or lack of it? He had no plans or provisions in place money wise?

I have done both.

I worked from aged 16 through to 29, had DD1, six months mat leave and then had to put her into full time nursery to go back to work.

It was hard. I split with her dad while she was very young, and then spent 5 years juggling work, childcare, the house and money.

I had DD2 when DD1 was 7 and had at that point decided to retrain as I was completely bored with my job. I signed up to college to do Support Work a year after DD2 was born. Unfortunately about six months before that I woke up one morning and was in excruciating pain.

13 years later I have had two surgeries on my spine, the pain is never ending. I am on the tail end of a pain flare up and my condition fluctuates so much I can't really envisage any kind of job.

DD2 has autism which resulted in four years of no sleep, refusing to settle at nursery and just screaming for hours so had to remove her and try again somewhere else. It's a bit of a journey with her.

So yeah, everyone has their issues and while someone may look fine, they could well not be.

^^ this

If I had to have a job FT, my mental health would be terrible. It's excellent as I work doing all sorts of things with big gaps for recovery.

I can’t work full time. I find it difficult as I’ve worked all my life, and the lack of adult company and financial independence is crippling.

I do ‘work’ for 40 hours + though on my own projects.

I have caring responsibility for two sen kids, one only morning school, I live in the countryside and only DP has a car which he needs for work. I can’t move.

I’ve been trying to set up a business that I can do from home instead, it just hasn’t bought in a wage.

I’m embarrassed telling my friends I don’t work, who all hold down full time jobs.

Blimey @mycats that sounds very tough. Hats. Off to you.

I'm super lucky that my work agreed to only put me in work on my husbands days off otherwise I wouldn't have been able to work due to childcare costs.
I do really enjoy being a part time working mam though but totally understand why other mothers would rather be at home to raise their children.
Also really feel for those people who can't work due to their mental health. Husband suffers with these issues and often doesn't want to go to work but he pushes himself which can sometimes make it worse.

Before I had children I worked full time and coped with it very well because it was all I had to cope with. Since having my 2 dc I just wouldn't manage full time work. I need significant down time to be able to cope with life and if I was always either at work or with my children I wouldn't get it.

I'm pretty sure I have HFA (dd1 is about to be diagnosed and she is a miniature version of me.)

MrsRyanGosling, he had lost his work pension due to a financial crash. How many women are there out there without pension provision? Should they be made to work full time in their late sixties to catch up?

Kids or no kids, if you think about it, it’s actually bizarre that most of us have to sell around 70% of our waking time to other people to make ends meet.

everyone has to be coerced into believing the idea that a 'work ethic' (ie a willingness to obey and not complain and accept the lowest wages an employer can get away with) is a virtue

^ This, 1000 times over. I feel completely the same about mortgages. Get the masses to believe that home ownership is the "dream" and you tie them into being wage slaves for 25 years plus. Our society has been conditioned well. Hence why anyone on benefits is vilified. I do work and I don't claim benefits (although that hasn't always been the case), but I don't look down on anyone who doesn't work and/or needs to claim benefits.

MN makes me laugh on that one. You get one woman who has a husband, and is a SAHM complaining her (full time working) H doesn't help out and everyone throws sympathy at her saying he still needs to do chores, childcare etc. Then you get a struggling single parent and not only is she meant to do everything the SAHM mum does (without help) but work full time on top of that! Otherwise she's a "scrounger".

I personally don't think any woman with kids under say 3, should "have" to work. I see on here often "being a sahm is a luxury" well it shouldn't be a luxury! Fair enough if a woman wants to progress her career or afford a bigger house, holidays etc. But the choice should be there. In some ways women have more choices than ever before, but in some ways we have far less.

What other benefit would there be? I can’t think of anything else that you’d prioritise above spending time with your kids

You seriously can't think of anything other than money that might drive someone to go out to work? Some people find their jobs intellectually stimulating, some people enjoy the social contact or the sense of achievement they get from their work. I do need to work for financial reasons but even if our circumstances changed dramatically, I wouldn't give up my job completely. I love what I do and more importantly, it allows me to make a difference to the lives of some very vulnerable children.

@Reanimated

How much would this income be and if everyone claimed it, wouldn't the money eventually run out and what would happen to the infrastructure of the country if a quarter decided to rely completely on it and not work at all?

I wish there were incentives for employers to offer school hours/term time work so it became the norm.

This, 1000 times over. I feel completely the same about mortgages. Get the masses to believe that home ownership is the "dream" and you tie them into being wage slaves for 25 years plus.

What? If you don't own a home you still have to pay rent. Rent goes up with inflation, mortgage payments stay the same - thus the real cost of a mortgage decreases constantly while rents are increasing except in the case of deflation.

Unless a deflationary spiral is on the horizon how is it not financially better to pay a mortgage than rent? How does one "lock you into being a wage slave" and not the other?

I personally don't think any woman with kids under say 3, should "have" to work. I see on here often "being a sahm is a luxury" well it shouldn't be a luxury! Fair enough if a woman wants to progress her career or afford a bigger house, holidays etc. But the choice should be there. In some ways women have more choices than ever before, but in some ways we have far less.

Agree with this though. Looking after young children is a perfectly legitimate use of time and it's just as expensive to drive mothers of young children into low wage work (think of all the subsidies paid to low wage workers!) than it is to just leave them alone and let them watch over their babies.

It's perfectly fine not to want to work full time. Why should we? Given how utterly pointless many jobs are - the sort of cubicle-mouse role where you might actually complete about 3 hours worth of 'work' in an 8 hour day but you have to be there, for example. And that';s without the number of jobs which are exhausting and miserable and hugely underpaid. A lot of people are seeing through the bullshit and rejecting the idea that they should wear themselves out to line someone else's pockets. Hence all the bullshit scaremongering about 'benefit scroungers' and 'workshyness' being some kind of mental illness - the system is set up to depend on exploiting people for the benefit of large corporations, so everyone has to be coerced into believing the idea that a 'work ethic' (ie a willingness to obey and not complain and accept the lowest wages an employer can get away with) is a virtue.

applauds loudly I wish I'd written this. Spot on.

I worked full time until dd was 3. Despite having a hired nanny who tbh wasn’t that great in hindsight I had a full breakdown and quit my job. Probably a result of managing everything on my own as dh away a lot.

We’ve gotten by on dh income but that’s what we do. Get by. Dd now 5 and I can’t figure out a way to work pt, take care for my mental health and pay for childcare.
My dh agrees. Working ft and hiring a nanny was how we made it work, dh abroad a lot.

With a pt salary I doubt I’ll find an affordable nanny. I’ve contacted every childminder locally and none do school pick ups from dd school, plus they finish fairly early as I’d have to commute for a half decent salary. I don’t have family help. I’m also scared to return but I do feel terribly guilty dh is only worker in our household.

This is a topic close to my heart as I wrote my dissertation on the difficulties lone parents face with regards to moving away from welfare. It’s realky often not straightforward, for many social and structural reasons.

Personally, I have a teenager with disabilities who is home educated as she couldn’t cope with school, another child who is being assessed for ASD, I am pretty certain I have ASD myself but am undiagnosed. I also have chronic fatigue, and PTSD. I live rurally and there are very few jobs within commutable distance. I have a first class degree from a top uni but my hands are tied in terms of work. I am self employed, working from home, which earns me enough to keep the wolf from the door but it’s not a career as such. The cost/benefit analysis of me trying to go all out and get a full time job is that it’s not possible.

@Clairaloulou I used to feel I couldn’t reply with nothing but now I just say it defiantly.
Once when I said nothing someone burst out laughing and replied ‘nothing?!’ And I just replied, yes, nothing. To which they blankly stared at me.
Once you get used to saying it it’s fine and the truth hey? Don’t be ashamed. You don’t need to report your reasons why.

@ReanimatedSGB YESSSSSS! work for works sake. We have been fooled into thinking we should accept crap from employers and have a 'work ethic' and be grateful for shit wages and conditions. All for big corp which finance governments.

UBI would help mitigate this and give us more autonomy over our lives.

I'm on maternity leave right now looking after my 6m old but I've no idea what I'll do in the future. I simply don't think I'll be able to work full time. Husband is a farmer and works long days, he reckons once both our kids are in school he'll be able to do drop offs and pickups in November and December when it gets dark much earlier but that's it so I'll need to find a job that allows me to work 930-230 so I can do school runs and tbh I'll only be able to work 2/3 days because I'd never have enough annual leave to cover all the holidays so whatever I was earning I'd have to spend on holiday childcare

I work part time - 30 hours over 4 days, some weeks I do more some less. I worked full time till dc1 was born. Then went to 3 days, my wages covered childcare and a couple of bills, luckily dh was well paid at the time.

I’m glad I stayed in work as dh has been made redundant 3 times in 7 years, yes each time with a small payout but not enough to live off and if I had given up work we’d have been royally screwed. We are now in a situation where we are nearly ‘comfortable’ again.

Also I’m the only one who has a decent pension provision. Dh only started his 3 years ago, I’ve got over 15 years in my current one. And another small one which I may cash in to add to my current one. Maybe when then children are older I will go back full time, however I do have a bowel disease which can cause havoc and extreme pain, so I shall wait and see. Also I don’t feel my mental health would cope but if needs must I would do short term.

I’m not sure how the children would be if we both worked full time dc1 is being diagnosed with dyslexia and dyspraxia and like to have a set routine and needs extra help and support outside of school. As long as it’s explained that dh is working x shift this week and x next week it’s ok as soon as that deviated from it can cause issues.

A few of my friends gave up work when they had children and now they are at school can’t get a job, certainly not at their previous level or wage, or on hours which they could manage without paying for childcare, one confided in me that she wished she carried on working as she’s now sat at home and becoming depressed, and it’s taking its toll on her family.

YANBU some people cannot work, due to illness, disability or caring responsibilities. It is highly unlikely that one of my children will ever be able to take up full time or part time employment when older.

I work full time, I enjoy my job, but a lot of the time my salary goes to services/people to buy me time that I do not have because of work. Nanny, Part time PA for one of the children, cleaner.

Not everyone who has a SEN child is able to work even if they want to because a lot of childcare providers, though they try to be inclusive cannot cope with an SEN child or the child cannot cope with the setting because they need 1:1 care.

The lack of child care for SEN children is shocking and carers allowance is pitiful. The amount of carers allowance should be trippled IMO .

Unless a deflationary spiral is on the horizon how is it not financially better to pay a mortgage than rent? How does one "lock you into being a wage slave" and not the other

Well, for one thing, in countries where it is typical to rent rather than buy, rents are far far lower. Rents are high in this country specifically because rentals are in high demand, because so many people buy. My foreign GPs always rented and saved a huge amount of money which paid for their retirement and old age care, with money left over. I don't think they would have been any better off here had they owned a home and then had to sell it to pay for care.

Secondly, having a mortgage makes it more difficult to take "risks" in life. I have friends who hate their jobs but it's stable and secure employment. They talk about wanting to change it but they know they have monthly mortgage payments to make and they feel it's too risky. For example if they took a new job but didn't pass the probation period, that kind of thing. I'm in a housing association place. If I lost my job housing benefit would pay my rent (again if we had a system like some other countries, I would have unemployment insurance to cover it). Obviously it's not the preferable option and I'd find other work but I wouldn't end up homeless. I can hand in my notice and go off travelling for 6 months (which I actually did) and take the chance I can get work again when I get back (which I also did). My mortgage paying friends just had to carry on working.