AIBU to say that some people just cannot work full time or even at all?

[thebeesknees123]

This does seem to be an age old discussion among parents, particularly among women with young children.

I can think of various reasons why people can't work:

Just had a baby and breastfeeding
Mental or physical health conditions
Caring responsibilities - e.g. elderly relative
The money does not cover childcare/commute expenses

Personally, I do work (30 hours per week) but I am lucky in that it is shifts around the school so I don't have childcare costs. I would never slate someone who couldn't find something suitable for their needs or pressure them to take something that is going to cause them undue stress because they are put in a position where they are forced to be unreliable, which, frankly, I would be if I were forced to work 9 to 5.

the value of work is partly derived from the fact that they are self-sufficient

Yes, I value self sufficiency so much that I’ll leave my child and sit in a stuffy room all day being undervalued and underpaid

Sorry but unless I’m making a reasonable profit and/or career progress I’m not going to do that.

CosmicComet - and you have the right to make that choice as long as your being able to do so does not depend on someone else not having that choice.

I don't and can't work, but I live in fear that one day I will be forced back to work because I "don't look ill". I have heart failure (albeit stable and milder than previously) fibromyalgia, anxiety, depression and various other bits and bobs, I'm a single parent, and my son isn't very well either (brittle asthma, blood disorder, spld and suspected mild asd. Getting through a normal day is tough for me, but on the outside I look like a normal person. It's a constant worry for me.

I work for an organisation on contract (I can pick my hours to a certain extent).
They want me permanent and FT. I won’t do it.
FT to them is working loads of hours above 37 and I am not willing to do it.

I like spending time with DC, she has activities I want her to continue (which would have to stop if FT).

I also just don’t do very well. It makes me run down and all I do all weekend is housework. What’s the point! Time alone is very good for my mental health I find as well, equally a small working part time and spending time with people.

There's 'lots of help' out there with childcare? Where if you earn over even a small amount as a couple? And if you can afford to live on one salary, why should you pay out childcare to line someone else's pockets? The cult of work ethic is all about the rich getting richer and shaming and denigrating people who won't, don't need to or cannot work FT so the ideology of 'scroungers' v. 'strivers' and deserving/undeserving poor can be perpetuated. What a load of bollocks.

CosmicComet Wed 16-Jan-19 12:34:29
it conveys a belief that the only benefit of working is salary.

What other benefit would there be? I can’t think of anything else that you’d prioritise above spending time with your kids. You work if you have to because you need the money (assuming you’re one of the lucky ones whose salary would cover the cost of childcare).

What about your career development? What about having financial freedom. What about having a pension in your old age? What about sharing child responsibilities with your partner (if you have one)? Why is it always the mother who has to give up her career? Its not in my family faod.

I meant to say I have always worked, I have a science masters degree and it was really hard giving up work. But I was really ill and ended up with multiple organ failure before they figured out what was wrong. I'm 35 now and I dread that question "so what do you do then?" That people ask with an expectant face. You can't really reply "well nothing, I'm a dosser" or "I've made a career out of going to the hospital".

Personally I think it is every persons right to choose how they spend their time and they do what works for their family as long as they are not relying on maximum benefits to make ends meet as that does have an impact on everybody through taxes etc.

Otherwise they need to sort out how to bring in enough money to support their family and pay their own bills. Obviously this doesn’t cover ill health, disability etc etc.

Saying that I have always thought that there is a whole host of mothers who are available for work during school hours, term time only, and it’s a shame that the work isn’t available for them to do. All that wasted potential with no opportunity.

I don't think there is any shame in not working. The rich who don't work are not shamed. The shaming is usually done by people who are struggling and see others not struggling but better off. The super rich never complain about "benefits scroungers".

I completely agree.

If you add up how much I spend on car park, train ticket, child care, work clothes -because I really can't rock up in a pair of leggings, it would be completely pointless below a certain salary.

Having to cut down your hours doesn't really benefit your careers in some role either, so quitting or staying part-time doesn't make much difference for your future.

When you then look at the amount of tax you pay, and how many hours of the day you work for yourself once everything else is paid.. it's depressing.

There is a tendency among some MNers to assume work is achievable, beneficial and affordable across the board. It's not always. I've never not worked and would always want my own means of earning money, but I'm in a position to be able to make choices and I simply wouldn't take anything not suitable. If I weren't attractive enough to an employer to be able to command suitable hours and terms, I might not be able to work at all. I can see how it happens.

What other benefit would there be? I can’t think of anything else that you’d prioritise above spending time with your kids. You work if you have to because you need the money (assuming you’re one of the lucky ones whose salary would cover the cost of childcare).

What about people who genuinely love their job? And those who do a job that benefits society as a whole?

Do you not have any hobbies or ever go out without your children, because why would you prioritise doing anything over spending time with your kids?

Yes to all the previous comments. You have to get it right when your 10-20 otherwise retraining feels impossible with little support. Heaven forbid you have a rough time or no support so miss that opportunity.
Things change in life , what you can and can't do physically, mentally changes but theres little support to help you change what you do. Getting back into work seems an uphill struggle if your out of it.

Life is long but our work attitude is so inflexible.

@thebeesknees123 yanbu. And I think sometimes people are unfairly judged because of it.

I think women generally get the 'raw end' of the deal but I know of stay at home dad's who are in the same position.

For me, it's about business sense. For us to be a full time employed couple we would need to earn enough to put 3 children in out of school childcare - before and after school as well as school holidays. The eldest would be a 'latch key kid'.

I don't have the earning potential for that now having been out of work for nearly 7 years and leaving school with GCSEs and failed a levels.

So realistically I need a job Monday to Friday term time only. 8:30-2:30 to allow school drop offs and pick ups.

Dh earns good money but he is on a rotating shift pattern that includes nights. He's frequently out of the house by 6am and isn't back until 8pm at night so couldn't be relied upon to do regular school runs. Plus we would still have to pay for the childcare space we needed even if we didn't use it.

I did train as a childminder but cannot do that job in our current home.

Add onto that list children with Sen so the requirement to attend appointments and meetings, sometimes at short notice.

Even if I took unpaid leave, I understand that an employer still wants the jobs of that day doing.

I am not a favourable employee.

Instead I choose to volunteer some of my 'free time' in the dc's school and at their extra curricular clubs. This way I can at least demonstrate commitment and skills when/if a job does come up.

I am also looking into a 'side hustle' which I can do around the family but which earns me a small income to be able to have independent financial means.

Dh is in no way financially abusive but I feel bad asking for money to pay for the extras that I would like to do when he works so damned hard to keep our family in a comfortable lifestyle.

I agree.
i work part time and it's just about worthwhile because my 3 year old gets some free hours. If I worked full time then childcare would be more than my earnings and we'd start to struggle financially.
Incidentally I'm probably going to be swapping with my husband shortly and going full time while he goes part time. My work is insanely busy and desperate for me to do more hours. His is not and he's not really needed for more than 3 days a week.

And that inflexibility doesn't do anyone any good. I've benefitted from being able to access flexibility as a parent, as has DH, and we've both stayed in the workforce because of that. Might not have happened otherwise, if our employers had just been no, FT or nothing. It's enabled us to pay taxes and continue making available the skills we have that the labour market needs. This is so clearly a good thing, and yet through inflexibility so many are prevented from being able to do it.

I am self employed/freelance and choose this as it allows the flexibility to manage my own mental health conditions, parenting teenagers (who need present parenting time - not "childcare") and some light caring for elderly parent. I work @20 hours most weeks, though sometimes 70. I do not give a flying fuck whether anyone thinks I'm a skiver.

Working “just to cover childcare costs” only makes sense if you have no advancement or salary increases.

So for example, Mum A goes to work and earns enough to pay for childcare. Mum B takes 3 years out because she doesn’t see the point.

Surely at the end of 3 years, Mum A is in a better position for higher earnings than Mum B who if she comes back into the job market would potentially come in at the same or lower place she left it. Mum A may have been promoted or received a pay rise already.

Mum A is also better off if during that 3 years her partner lost his job or their relationship broke down.

I love my job. It's fun.

It's absolutely fine to choose not to work if you are able, just don't want to, as long as you fund it yourself.

I work a few hours at the weekends around my husband. I do it purely so that we have spends for treats and nice things as we'd not afford to otherwise. When my kids are old enough for school I'll be limited to term time only jobs as DH's work can't accommodate time off for s school holidays.

I like working - it gives me time away from the family to be me again instead of 'mum'. I only earn NMW but the people are lovely and the perks make up for it. However I can fully see why some people in my position wouldn't be willing to sacrifice time at the weekend (or evenings) if they didn't have to.

Still thinking about the poster yesterday who was highly indignant that her 67 year old husband wanted to drop a day so that he was no longer full time. It sometimes seems that some women believe they have a god given right not to work but they do not extend that right to their sole bread winner husbands.

I definitely think there is a very unhealthy work culture in a lot of industries, you’re expected to work late for no overtime pay in a lot of places - and the invention of smart phones means some people are expected to be contactable 24/7 because technically they’re never far from their emails.

Ads like the attached also feed into the idea that overworking is glamorous or aspirational - it’s actually unhealthy and unsustainable.

I read something a while ago on the topic of work, which explains how fucked up things are now. From memory it was something like this: there are three main reasons to work.

1. Completing necessary tasks - producing food, creating and maintaining infrastructure, caring for people who can't care for themselves.
2. Redistrubution of resources - getting paid (barter systems don't really work except on a very small scale)
3. Giving people a sense of purpose and satisfaction.

Currently, in most of the developed world, these reasons are not really there. Yes, we still need food, goods and services, infrastructure etc, but there are far more able-bodied adults than are needed to complete these tasks, particularly with increasing automation.
Redistribution of resources: for the last 30 years ago everyone has been sold the bullshit about trickle-down economics, which simply doesn't work. What we now have is a situation where a minority of very rich people are actually draining society of money and locking it away in offshore accounts.
Sense of purpose: many, many jobs give you no satisfaction or purpose at all. Spending your days phoning up people who will put the phone down on you as soon as you start your sales pitch. Useless layers of 'middle management' whose time is spent getting under other people's feet and producing reports that no one reads. The armies of box-tickers and bean counters.

It makes far more sense that more and more people are rejecting this model - and the increasing awareness that we need Universal Basic Income so that people can reject it and find more productive uses for their time is a positive thing.

Blobby:
"I had a friend who claimed she couldn't work full time as it gave her stress juggling school age children and a job. Her two daughters are 16 and 18 now and she's still only working 2.5 days a week - mind you her husband earns well over £100k so they could afford it.

This is almost me!! less the £100k Dh

I've only worked part time, 3 days, for the last 15 years. I don't think I could manage full time now. Although I do have a health condition.

When I mentioned possibly losing my current part time job, and thus taking a full time job, at Christmas, to my mum, she was horrified and told Dh (not his fault!!) that she thought this would be a very very bad idea!!