To absolutely LOVE the new Gillette advert!! Outrage on Twitter.

[gluteustothemaximus]

Have you seen the new Gillette advert?

It's in line with the #metoo movement and it's just brilliant.

Reaction online is depressing though. It has pissed Piers Morgan off royally though, so that's excellent. Poor little snowflake. Offended at an advert

I notice that there is a campaign at the moment for women to grow leg and armpit hair for January. "Januhairy" apparently.

This will have gotten Gillette a bit worried, especially at a time when more and more men are wearing beards and are dispensing with the need for razors.

I am wondering whether some creative somewhere has devised a supremely cunning advertising campaign that many men will dislike but that women will love, thus sending the sales of women's Gillette razors into orbit?

I say this as for some years now Gillette's marketing campaigns have been very far from empowering to women in so many ways.

In fact the Gillette Venus youtube channel has removed a lot of their old videos fairly recently.

Can me an old cynic but I can''t help but wonder whether the Best A Man Can Be video is not aimed at men at all but at women? In fact i have watched it several times and I am absolutely certain that this is the case. Advertising creatives make mistakes sometimes but they are not stupid people. They understand about psychology. I believe that this is definitely an ad that is covertly targeted towards women and it is highly effective if the responses on this thread reflect women in society generally.

hilbobaggins

I was going to go on to critique the aspects off the ad that I found annoying but you have pretty much summed up what I was thinking while I was writing my earlier post.

Couldn't agree more

@hoodathunkit

I guess your theory is possible - sacrifice the male consumer to pick up women. What I find depressing is that so many women seem to find this ad appealing. I am an old school feminist from the good old days, and I cannot stand the portrayal of women in this ad - so passive, so silent, such victims, laying all the blame on men. There’s also the fact that many of the behaviours displayed (being patronising, name-calling, bullying) are NOT unique to men - far from it!

@hilbobaggins

I think that men and women are easily influenced by advertising and that one of the ways of liberating ourselves from such influence is to learn about advertising and propaganda, especially in these days of identity politics and fake news.

I'm too tired tonight, but my usual way of deconstructing adverts is to play them back minus sound at half speed. The visual narrative comes much more clearly into focus.

I think that the spell becomes broken once you can "speak its name" (make the unconscious narrative conscious)

I loathe this advert and am none too keen on P&G or where it's money goes. If you like don't mind being manipulated, I guess it's for you.

www.pgnewsroom.co.uk/press-release/uk-news-releases/pg-joins-stonewall-launch-trans-equality-initiative

The problem with Elon's L'Oreal advert idea is that it isn't much different from what already happens - men make adverts telling women how to dress, how to make themselves more attractive, how to "woman" better - but if women don't wear make up, or shave every inch of their body, or go paragliding while wearing sanitary pads with wings, HOW DOES THIS ADVERSELY AFFECT MEN?
It doesn't.
It doesn't affect them at all.
It has no impact on their wellbeing in the slightest, or their safety.

Whereas the Gillette ad addresses behaviours in men that adversely affect the whole of society, not just women. Sure, have your NAMALT moment - but it is a prevailing trend in society and you'd have to live in bloody Shangri-La or somewhere to have never heard someone say "boys will be boys" or similar.

Boys do not have to fight, like physical rough and tumble, or play games with inflated bags of wind to be "boys". Boys can like dolls, art, cooking, dancing, singing just as much as girls can - but masculine stereotypes tell them that these things are "girly".

So good for Gillette in challenging men to stand up against these stereotypes, and to stand up for people being able to enjoy a peaceful life, whether it's the nerd, the pretty woman, the smaller boy, the younger brother or whomever - true equality is about allowing everyone to be the best person they can be without ridicule, bullying or harassment.

hilbobaggins

Yes, I noticed that too, the white man harrasing young black girl sitcom. Also the meek sad lookiy woman who lets herself be patronised by the man. I also noted that in the GMB segment where piers Morgan shouts at everyone and it qualifies as a "debate", at the end the female who is defending the advert feels entitled to rub the man's face unsolicited. Wtf.

Awkward

awkward

Not really

I think most people recognise that its just one advert

I don’t think anyone believes that Gillette are the moral arbiters of a brave new world or anything though - just that they’ve tried something that hasn’t really been done before and it’s hit a nerve with a lot of people. A PP said it much more eloquently than I ever could but advertisers use the zeitgeist to market their products and this is obviously a current hot topic. Which can only be a good thing - really, what bad can come from men being aware of and challenging toxic masculinity?

I am an old school feminist from the good old days, and I cannot stand the portrayal of women in this ad - so passive, so silent, such victims, laying all the blame on men.

I guess it depends on whether you see this ad as targeting women or men. I don’t think women can ‘solve’ equality alone, it needs to be a society-wide responsibility. So I don’t think it matters how the women are portrayed in the advert, because the whole point is how men (currently responsible for 98% of sexual crimes etc) can fix the problems they cause.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad

Boys do not have to fight, like physical rough and tumble, or play games with inflated bags of wind to be "boys". Boys can like dolls, art, cooking, dancing, singing just as much as girls can - but masculine stereotypes tell them that these things are "girly".

But this isn’t what this ad is about. It is not aspirational in the slightest - it doesn’t say “you are still a boy no matter what’s your interests, and whatever your interests that’s absolutely fine”. That would be a different kind of message and one that many men and women would be on board with.

Instead, Gillette is doing what Gillette advertising has always done - it uses shame to “educate” boys and men about the “best” way to do masculinity. The message has changed in accordance with what our society now deems to be politically acceptable, but the tactics are exactly the same.

true equality is about allowing everyone to be the best person they can be without ricidule, bullying or harassment

• I suspect that’s not what you mean at all. I suspect you mean that if they’re boys who break gender stereotypes they should be able to do so without ridicule, but if they’re boys who actually want to play with “inflated bags of wind” - your words, and clearly chosen to ridicule and diminish boys who like playing football - they don’t deserve the same respect.

What pumper said

I guess it depends on whether you see this ad as targeting women or men. I don’t think women can ‘solve’ equality alone, it needs to be a society-wide responsibility. So I don’t think it matters how the women are portrayed in the advert, because the whole point is how men (currently responsible for 98% of sexual crimes etc) can fix the problems they cause.

But the targeting is irrelevant because both men and women (and boys and girls) will see the ad and absorb the message. If the message - deliberately created - is that women and girls are voiceless,
powerless victims of masculinity, how on earth does that help anyone?

Maybe I’ve misunderstood you here but it sounds as if you’re saying, “this is a society-wide problem for which we’re all responsible. Men, go and fix it.” This doesn’t make any sense. If women cannot ‘solve equality’ (whatever that means) alone, neither can men. If a relationship is dysfunctional you don’t fix it by insisting that all the fault is with the other person, and telling them over and over again that they’re in the wrong and that all the problems in the relationship have been created by them. That approach results in huge amounts of resentment and antagonism.

this is a society-wide problem for which we’re all responsible. Men, go and fix it.

More ‘this is a society-wide problem for which we’re all responsible. Men, this is the part you’re responsible for’.

And, bear with me, I can’t copy two quotes on one post...

If a relationship is dysfunctional you don’t fix it by insisting that all the fault is with the other person, and telling them over and over again that they’re in the wrong and that all the problems in the relationship have been created by them. That approach results in huge amounts of resentment and antagonism

I don’t understand this logic, because men are to blame for this, men are responsible for fixing it. As I woman I can raise my son to behave properly and hopefully I will. I don’t see why it’s so controversial to say ‘men, help sort out this problem that YOU have created’ I think I was pretty clear that men aren’t solely responsible for ‘solving’ (and by that I mean ‘identifying areas where women get a raw deal and changing them’) but that women cant do it alone. Why would men helping women towards equality antagonise them at all?

The only reasons I can see that you wouldn’t agree with the suggestion that men need to deal with this are 1) you believe women are at fault for toxic masculinity or 2) you don’t believe in it at all.

Sorry, should have added: this conversation assumes that only women will benefit from men addressing TM which isn’t the case at all. I don’t believe the ad was centering women in the discussion, I believe it’s an entirely male-focussed argument. So really it’s irrelevant how they portrayed women because the point is ‘here’s what men can do for other men’

Hello Mums, Decalration. I'm a man. I read Mumsnet sometimes because I like to get a female viewpoint but haven't thought of posting before because I prefer it to be all women chatting but I'm making an exception for this because the topic is men and I'm hoping my own personal perspective can be relevant. What has struck me most about it is just how polarised opinions are. On one end of the scale you have how could anyone dislike praise for gentle and caring men unless they want just want a licence to carry on being predatory chauvinist **s" and on the other hand there has been people (men mostly, but not exclusivlely. saying "stop attacking men. It's not a crime to be masculine". And as you always get on the internet some bigoted cowards just being trollish.

It's almost like they haven't watched the same video. I And I think that is the key to to it. I don't think ti's as much I'm right as your wrong, as you focused on this I focused on that that. So with that said, can I hopefully respectfully tell you why I feel generally negatively about it.

1.Don't be a dick! What's wrong with telling you not to be a dick. I didn't tell you you are a dick, I just told you not to be a dick. Why do you think I was implying you were a dick, unless you are a dick. Are you? Are you? - I think some people might call getting irked by that that male fragility. This one kind of irritated me but 2 is the one that really gets under my skin.

1. Procter and Gamble invented soap operas (literally) so that they could persuade women to buy lifestyles instead of household products. They've spent decades stereotyping the perfect housewife who buys their cleaning product so their family doesn't get sick, and uses their washing powder so that her family looks fresh and not second class and uses their moisturising cream so she doesn't look old and unattractive. Someone posted the Mitchell and Webb sketch earlier (very funny and very true), how many £270 of products are made by P&?. Okay, most people don't have the downer on advertising as I do but please indulge my quirk on this one. Am I supposed to take a morality lesson from people telling me respect people that they're charging 20% extra for having the pink version?

tl:dr some good points, but aggressively and judgementally made with zero sincerity

@Pumperthepumper

I think there are certain aspects of masculinity which are problematic. But I don’t think there’s something inherently wrong with being male. There are also fantastically positive aspects about masculinity, none of which were reflected in this ad.

I would say the same about femininity and women. There are negative and positive aspects. How would we feel about an ad that called out negative female behaviours and asked women to be collectively responsible for solving them? Would we know where to start with that? Or would we simply be outraged and furious - which is how many men are reacting? And rightly so, in my opinion.

In terms of what men are supposed to do about the more problematic issues - the ad is implying that they can call out bad behaviour, which I suppose is a good suggestion. But it’s so incredibly narrow and negative in its focus, and some of the behaviours portrayed - boys fighting in the garden - portray a total lack of understanding about what is and isn’t problematic.

And again - you may not think the portrayal of women matters here (I disagree) but at the least it’s worth noting that the entire
marketing machine at Gillette appear to be comfortable with signing off on an ad which portrays them as entirely lacking agency and power - and in need of men to speak up for then.

Most bizarre of all are the voices praising P&G for taking a stand on the social justice front. At the end of the day P&G would happily make ads about puppies being killed if it would sell more products for them. It is a completely cynical ploy and it will be interesting to see how truly committed they are to this approach if sales fall.

@SilySod

*Am I supposed to take a morality lesson from people telling me respect people that they're charging 20% extra for having the pink version?

tl:dr some good points, but aggressively and judgementally made with zero sincerity*

I totally agree.

But I don’t think there’s something inherently wrong with being male.

But who said there was? There is a problem with TM though, and I think the ad is pretty clear on that.

I agree there are problems with femininity but women aren’t killing and raping at anywhere near the same rates as men. Which suggests that actually, it is a male problem, and one for men to sort out. Plus the massive, massive negatives TM has on men and boys, which I think the ad also highlights well.

I agree the ad is narrow in focus, I said so on page three (ish!) on this thread. I also said that I don’t think anyone believes that gilette are going to change the world with this one advert. But it is the first time that I can think of that an ad has done anything like this to address toxic male behaviour and I think that’s why there’s so much uproar.

@Pumper -

I agree that it “addresses” the issue of problematic male behaviour in a way that hasn’t been done before - but to what end?

If the goal is to get some women thinking that it calls out “toxic male behaviour” then I guess that’s a win - certainly women here seem to love it - but you’re saying that you think the point of the ad is to call on men to change their behaviour. And if that’s really the point then the execution is flawed and the message is lost because for the most part people (male and female people) really don’t like being what it’s do. And they definitely don’t like being told that everything they are doing is wrong.

“Men should sort out raping and killing.” Which men? How should they organise this? Where do you suggest they start?

“Men should sort out raping and killing.” Which men? How should they organise this? Where do you suggest they start?

There were a couple of good practical tips in a recent razor ad

That’s not actually a quote from my post but since you asked, here’s some things that could help:

Stop using violence for any reason - football, sorting out disputes between kids, standing up for someone - and don’t stand for violence around you.

Stop using phrases like ‘well she was drunk’ as an excuse for rape. Don’t look for reasons to explain how she was at fault. Complain when newspapers use headlines like ‘drunk student raped’. Stand up to your friends when they say it.

Be completely outraged at men like Brock Turner and Ched Evans, and be vocal about your outrage

Don’t allow misogyny under any guise around you or your family or work colleagues, don’t stand for it.

Don’t just say ‘but I’m not like that therefore it has nothing to do with me’ (which was the point of the gilette ad)

Also - ALL men should do this. All of them.