Would you want another Brexit referendum?

[simplesalvage]

Inspired by the would you vote the same way thread.

I was initially against another referendum thinking it would be undemocratic to not accept the vote but after reading the 'would you vote the same' thread I think I have changed my mind.

1. It is not undemocratic to ask the same question to people again. You are asking the same people so they can vote the same way again if they wish. In fact asking again is more democratic. When you were in school you would always do repeat science experiments to ensure the results were accurate.
2. Someone said when you have to consent for an operation they take your consent multiple times in case you change your mind - when they first tell you about it and again just before the information. People do change their minds - they learn new information and just have a different state of mind.
3. We do have more information available now. A lot of what was said were lies (think £350 million available to the NHS) and we know a lot more about the general process of leaving now.
4. The population has changed since the referendum. Unfortunately a lot of people have died and 16/17 year olds who could not then now are old enough. Therefore another referendum would provide a more representative view of the future.
5. Another referendum is not likely to ask the same question. It would be more like do you want 'this' deal and to leave with it as that is what we can get (or no deal), or to remain etc.

My main worry about another referendum is that the country would probably descend in to chaos and a minority of leave voters might get a bit nasty.

Anyway sorry for the long post. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me (like I did yesterday!). What are everyones thoughts?

YES

MrsAriadneOliver-
Yes I know what you mean, I think British politics is in a very poor state at present.

The BBC seems to be slavishly devoted to the EU. I thought it was supposed to be impartial?

I used to think no but now I think yes, another referendum to find out what the people want now.

Problem with another Ref - if eg remain won by a smallish margin does that mean that's the end of the matter? I doubt it.
I think a whole can of worms has been opened and people on either side aren't going to be satisfied.
Tis a tricky problem with no easy solution.

The anti-brexit bias has been so blatant that if there was a second a referendum it would affect the result, probably the intention all along.
I think democracy is a bit of an illusion and that we as people don’t have any real say. I’d like to see an enquiry but I don’t think it would ever happen.

Dear sweet Jesus, yes please. Get us out of this chaotic shitstorm and let normal service resume...

Dear sweet Jesus, yes please. Get us out of this chaotic shitstorm

But how is a second ref going to do that?

I think the deal is as good as its going to get for now. Cameron thought he could get concessions before the vote and failed, I don’t think the eu will renegotiate.

Parliament have voted against the deal so that leaves;

-They either ignore the vote, and kick brexit into the long grass- which i think sets a dangerous precendent.

-As the deal was rejected- we leave by default, on WTO rules

Or they ask the public- the deal or no deal. As we never actually left, and nothing has really changed, I cannot see the justification for asking the remain/leave question again.

However if the deal is so bad that parliament voted it down by such a large margin- what’s the point in putting it to the public.

I don’t think a general election will solve anything- labour are not even clear what they would do, put us no further forward.

I think the only option that upholds the vote is leave with no deal. I think it now comes down to ,do we want to live inna democracy or not.

The anti-brexit bias has been so blatant

By who? Surely not the BBC, who most people in my remain leaning circles are infuriated by- they think the BBC has been ridiculosly pro Brexit and pro government. And not the majority of the MSM- The Sun, Express, Daily Mail and Telegraph are massively pro Brexit.

No

The first one was stupid enough

No. I don't think we should have a second ref if it's exactly the same question as the first. But then I also think the first referendum wasn't worth the paper we wrote our Xs on. It's a ridiculously complex issue and not something that should ever have been reduced to 'Leave' or 'Remain'. There are so many different terms for leaving that one person's leave idea may not remotely resemble another person's leave idea.

I would possibly support a People's Vote in so much as a 'Leave on these terms ...' vs 'Remain' style referendum, but it would have to be extremely clear as to what the terms of the Leave vote actually meant.

@BlueKarou

No one agrees on the terms on which to leave, that’s the problem.

There’s been so many examples of anti brexit reporting- a few; super gonorrhoea, the dead remaining unburied, sperm shortages, no mars bars, brexit is a threat to sandwiches, from various media.

When there’s anything good, it’s “in spite of brexit”.......

Agreed, Ariadne - and given that the terms need to be accepted by the EU, it's not even a case where the Gov't could line up a number of different possibilities, all of which could potentially come to fruition. It's all just too complicated!

It's the government's responsibility to work out the details, which they're struggling to do at the moment. Well, struggling to do in a cohesive manner. I don't think the British public should be voting until we know what we're voting for. It seems like the government don't really know what we Brits want (and what we want is so varied between different people...)

I don't have an answer, I just don't really think any of what's going on at the moment is remotely productive. Is there anyone in the country actually happy with the current state of play?

May’s deal, good or bad, is the best this government managed to negotiate with the EU. It matters little to the EU whether we like it or not - they’ve stated their position and are sticking to it. It’s unlikely to be improved upon and we’re running out of time now. So it’s prudent to make preparations for no deal, as we should have been doing all along, just in case.

Yes, I think we should have a second referendum. People did not have proper understanding of the implications of leaving last time and I do think people would vote more knowledgeably this time. I think the vast majority who voted to leave voted on emotional/idealistic grounds rather than economic and practical ones and many would now vote to remain.

I agree with the idea that there should be a greater margin needed to change the status quo and leave the EU. As someone suggested - perhaps 60/40. The trouble is - this would result in outrage from the Leavers as it would mean not only having a second vote but changing the numerical terms in Remain's favour.

I would love, as pps have suggested, if they could just withdraw Article 50 and cancel leaving. I think, however, that that would cause such anger and division (both in Parliament and society generally) that we have to go with the option that seems fairer and have the second referendum. Remainders risk losing again of course but it seems the least worst option.

There’s been so many examples of anti brexit reporting- a few; super gonorrhoea, the dead remaining unburied, sperm shortages, no mars bars, brexit is a threat to sandwiches, from various media.

I'm not sure that reporting on things people have said could happen as a result of no deal brexit is 'anti brexit reporting', unless you're similarly annoyed when anyone reports on possible drawbacks there may be to remaining. The reports that should we end up remaining after all, there would be widespread right wing civil unrest, for example.

There should be a greater margin needed to change the status quo and leave the EU. As someone suggested - perhaps 60/40

We can’t keep moving the goalposts and asking the same question. We had a referendum. The vote was to leave. We should abide by it.

This would result in outrage from the Leavers

Well, quite. And they’d be justified in feeling that way.

Possible drawbacks to remaining? I haven’t seen much in the way of this as of late.
I do take issue with reporting possible issues with brexit when they border on the ridiculous.

No, we just to stop wasting time, money and effort on Brexit and admit that having looked into it and done some proper sums, it really isn't a good idea.

Revoke article 50 and get on with repairing the damage done to the country and the economy by the whole sorry load of nonsense.

Yes I would support a second referendum as I think there was a lot of misrepresentation of information in the first referendum. People are now a lot more clear on the consequences of a 'leave' vote.

Yes, I agree on the "greater margin". It should have been part of the first referendum but, since it wasn't, it can't be imposed on the next one. That's why I said Remainers may well lose again but I still think a second referendum is the least worst option.

I simply don’t think it’s a good idea at this stage to just ignore the result- that has the potential to cause more damage than anything else. If you value democracy then this is not an option.
There’s was opportunity to “do the sums” before calling the vote was agreed.

Yes I would support a second referendum as I think there was a lot of misrepresentation of information in the first referendum. People are now a lot more clear on the consequences of a 'leave' vote.

Whilst thats true, it would also highlight the Remain side more as well, a lot of rhetoric would have to change that comes from a lot of Remainer Labour supporters. A lot of what they solely put onto Conservatives feet are inherent because of being in the EU.

It has changed politics whatever happens, I don't think anyone is really after a second ref, and a GE to bring in a second ref would mean Corbyn has the most to loose out of it, they are not a single issue party like LD and they have to balance the metropolitan remain areas with the northern heartland constituents that voted leave. Tory remainers wont switch to labour, so its a shit show that we either leave on WTO - no deal, or kick it into the long grass and deal with the fall out for a good few years.