Would you want another Brexit referendum?

[simplesalvage]

Inspired by the would you vote the same way thread.

I was initially against another referendum thinking it would be undemocratic to not accept the vote but after reading the 'would you vote the same' thread I think I have changed my mind.

1. It is not undemocratic to ask the same question to people again. You are asking the same people so they can vote the same way again if they wish. In fact asking again is more democratic. When you were in school you would always do repeat science experiments to ensure the results were accurate.
2. Someone said when you have to consent for an operation they take your consent multiple times in case you change your mind - when they first tell you about it and again just before the information. People do change their minds - they learn new information and just have a different state of mind.
3. We do have more information available now. A lot of what was said were lies (think £350 million available to the NHS) and we know a lot more about the general process of leaving now.
4. The population has changed since the referendum. Unfortunately a lot of people have died and 16/17 year olds who could not then now are old enough. Therefore another referendum would provide a more representative view of the future.
5. Another referendum is not likely to ask the same question. It would be more like do you want 'this' deal and to leave with it as that is what we can get (or no deal), or to remain etc.

My main worry about another referendum is that the country would probably descend in to chaos and a minority of leave voters might get a bit nasty.

Anyway sorry for the long post. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me (like I did yesterday!). What are everyones thoughts?

@LaurieMarlow

Maybe because we’re not panicking over the unknown. I have little fear that any of what you described will happen.

Theresa May is additionally flogging the lie that 'parliament' gave the people the referendum, Helmet. Did it fuck.

I voted Leave.

I would be unhappy at ref2 but if there is to be one then the choice should be soft Brexit or no deal.

I don't think it will happen. I doubt we'll ever get another Ref on anything.
Ps why do people keep calling it a people's vote? What was the one in 2016?

i have little fear that any of what you described will happen.

I can only conclude you have little understanding of the situation.

Sigh.

I'd prefer it just to be cancelled totally, enough time and money has been wasted on it already.

@LaurieMarlow

Or just that I have different priorities to you.

Sigh.

I also think 52% is not high enough for any significant referendum, should be more like 60 % or 70% majority required.

@Stringofpearls

That ship sailed, I’m afraid!

No he didn't act in isolation but there's been a general election since then, and we have a new govt.

i have little fear that any of what you described will happen.

So what do you think will happen then?

That the WTO will tell us 's'okay UK, none of our international trading laws will apply to you following your EU exit. We like you, so we'll give you a free pass!'

Why would we willingly and knowingly walk into severe economic disruption, food shortages, medicine shortages, travel chaos, the possibility of civil unrest, potential of reigniting hostilities in Northern Ireland?

She prioritises other stuff, Laurie. These aren't important to her.

Helmet-
So what? we still have an essentially conservative government. What is your actual point?

She prioritises other stuff, Laurie. These aren't important to her.

Maybe she's JRM and her other priorities are making fast bucks in unregulated environments while the little people take the hit.

However did you guess?

My point is you've got the facts wrong.
This talk of a second referendum, seems to me THEY hope they can make the situation go away, and remain will win.
THEY - the Govt who called the first referendum are no longer in power - Cameron/Osborne etc are gone.
THEY - the present Govt - just tried very strongly to make a Brexit deal - that deal was rejected by Parliament.

Helmet- parliament allowed the referendum to be held.
The referendum was an in/out decision
Parliament supported the referendum, parliament should support the result.

Holding the referendum was an act of Parliament- helmet, do you not get this?

Having watched this mornings coverage on the BBC it reminds me that one of the most shocking things about this situation is that the BBC has basically been given almost unfettered ability to push its agenda on the EU for the past 2years. It’s been absolutely shocking behaviour.every question leading down a particular path - ie another vote or staying in a customs union

@Helmetbymidnight
@LaurieMarlow

Please don’t hammer me - here’s my thinking.

I do think no deal is better than a bad deal. But in the absence of a definition of what May or the British public consider to be a bad deal, it’s not a particularly meaningful phrase anyway!

It could mean ‘WTO terms are better than a punitive deal’, which may be true in theory, but nations don’t have to accept WTO terms of trade and they don’t do so automatically. The WTO just provides a framework within which governments can negotiate. So hard Brexit may mean WTO rules, but not necessarily.

There is no consensus on what a good or bad deal is. No one’s going to be entirely happy. Everyone seems to have different views on what the price of accepting freedom of movement or the diminution of sovereignty is worth. It’s a hopeless mess. It seems clear that the UK and the EU have incompatible starting points for a post-Brexit deal.

If the UK wants to leave, it should leave quickly. A clean break would be the best way to move forward. WTO rules are worse for British trade than the Single Market, but at least they are clearer than improvisations that will satisfy no one.

I think the government is an absolute disgrace- THEY called the first referendum, they put it to the people, they said they would implement the result- then didn’t like the result and are backtracking.
The government is entirely responsible for this mess. This talk of a second referendum, seems to me they hope they can make the situation go away, and remain will win. What if it doesn’t?, will they ignore the second vote

But this is what you wrote. It's not correct!

Budgie-
Yes I’ve noticed the same. I think they will grind down leavers so much with it, that when/if the second ref is held they will vote remain- out of being fed up and demoralised.
Think the whole giving us a vote backfired, because they expected remain to win, and now they are mucking about trying to uphold the illusion that we live in some sort of democracy.

Helmet-
The government put it to parliament, parliament passed it, the ref was held, the majority voted out. There is nothing more to it, where are you going with this?

The situation did not create itself, and if the conservatives called it, and parliament agreed to it, they should implement the decision. If they were concerned about leaving- then they’re about three years too late, The ship has sailed and they have the responsibility now to see through what was started. Not just step back, say it’s too hard and put it to the people AGAIN.

They cannot just keep moving the goalposts, they should uphold what was decided- that we should leave.
Otherwise we don’t have a democracy.

@Missymoo100

I find it hard to care what happens anymore. Voters have been alienated by the incompetence of our politicians. We like to think our votes matter, but they don’t. The Tories will still be voted in as the best of a very bad bunch. I couldn’t vote in good conscience for anyone.

God no. The country’s divided enough as it is. The way all the political parties are behaving is an embarrassment

Missymoo I actually think there needs to be an enquiry into this. The national media station has basically been pushing a political agenda for the last 2 years. The other morning on breakfast the presenter actually said along the lines of I’d better shake your hand (to a leaver) as I shook Keirs hand earlier. It was almost like he really was having to force himself to shake the hand of a leaver.