Would you want another Brexit referendum?

[simplesalvage]

Inspired by the would you vote the same way thread.

I was initially against another referendum thinking it would be undemocratic to not accept the vote but after reading the 'would you vote the same' thread I think I have changed my mind.

1. It is not undemocratic to ask the same question to people again. You are asking the same people so they can vote the same way again if they wish. In fact asking again is more democratic. When you were in school you would always do repeat science experiments to ensure the results were accurate.
2. Someone said when you have to consent for an operation they take your consent multiple times in case you change your mind - when they first tell you about it and again just before the information. People do change their minds - they learn new information and just have a different state of mind.
3. We do have more information available now. A lot of what was said were lies (think £350 million available to the NHS) and we know a lot more about the general process of leaving now.
4. The population has changed since the referendum. Unfortunately a lot of people have died and 16/17 year olds who could not then now are old enough. Therefore another referendum would provide a more representative view of the future.
5. Another referendum is not likely to ask the same question. It would be more like do you want 'this' deal and to leave with it as that is what we can get (or no deal), or to remain etc.

My main worry about another referendum is that the country would probably descend in to chaos and a minority of leave voters might get a bit nasty.

Anyway sorry for the long post. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me (like I did yesterday!). What are everyones thoughts?

I don’t want another vote. I voted remain but think many remain voters are making the mistake of assuming that another referendum will result in a different outcome. Referenda are a shit way of dealing with complex issues. I don’t think another one is the way to go. It would be a gamble.
I am concerned that opinion is hardening in favour of no deal, which I think would be disastrous. I can suck up leaving the EU on a deal that resembled the Norway/Iceland or Switzerland model. Hell, at this stage I’d take Canada+. However, I don’t accept that the referendum result gives a mandate for no deal. Nobody in the referendum campaign on the leave side ever suggested that no deal was what we would end up with. Nobody was suggesting that we should leave the EU with no agreements on anything at all.
People voted to leave the EU. That’s it. So we should leave the EU, with a sensible deal. The EU offered us a number of options for our future relationship, consistent with the deals they have with other non-EU countries. Of course none of the deals are as good as what we had but it doesn’t have to be a total disaster.
I’m so angry at our politicians. What a disaster! I’m normally a labour voter but seethe every time I see one of their frontbenchers imply that they could have got a deal that gave us the benefits of the Norway model with the obligations of the Canada model and that poor negotiation by the tories is the only reason we can’t have everything we want. I worry that some of them might actually believe it too.

Yes provided there is an option to remain.

Yes

No. I just want it ditched. It's a humiliating, chaotic debacle; to push ahead would be disastrous for this country and no one seems to have given any serious thought to the potential implications for the Good Friday agreement. It defies belief that such a serious issue has been effectively ignored. A general election would yield a more decisive outcome than a second referendum, the results of which are not legally binding anyway. Sadly, I don't think the vote of no confidence will tip the scales in that favour.

No. I'm a remainer but a second referendum would be a further disaster.

I would vote in one if there was one.
Perhaps we should have a referendum on whether to have another referendum...!
But there's no deal now to vote for or against so not sure what the question would be.

No absolutely not.

I believe speaking to the people I know, the leave vote would be higher a second time around.
Where do you draw the line? Best of three, paper, rock, scissors?
It's beyond a joke now. Just get on with it and let's leave.

Also. JC what a fucking arsehole that man is. I despise him.

Probably, yes, seeing as the so-called professionals have failed utterly to resolve this debacle. But it would need to be a very specific, unambiguous question that would lay out the precise circumstances of leaving and put the matter bed.

No. I don’t know where this ‘we did not know what we were voting for’ comes from, Remainers I assume. We voted, we made a decision and we can’t keep having another referendum about something that was so clear. I also don’t understand the ‘ there are more young now’ so what. A decision can only be made at that point, it’s like saying TM was voted in at the last election, but that wasn’t the right decision so let’s have another election. Are we really saying the young would even vote? And how many of you know Remainers who would now vote leave having seen what a bunch of bully boys run the EU unelected! I really don’t get why people are so scared to go it alone, we did before we agreed to join the common market and got sucked into the EU gravy train.

Yes. If people still want to vote for it knowing all we know now, then fair enough. The first one was voted on with scant facts. I think a second referendum is the fairest way.

Yes, now more than ever.

Like it or not, Parliament will never pass a No Deal Brexit because of the damage most MPs and experts recognize it would do to the country.

Parliament has also made clear today that it is unwilling to pass TM's deal itself, so we're at deadlock.

This could actually now all be solved fairly quickly by having a referendum on May's Deal vs Remain. Parliament would (basically) have to ascent to May's Deal if it supported by the people. If the people don't support TM's Brexit, then we'll have to Remain.

TM's deal is Brexit reality. It may not one of the various fantasies that some Leave voters may have had at the time, now it's up to them to shit or get off the pot.

No.

I have no confidence that it would be better conducted than the first. Nor do I think that we would be given a full range of appropriate choices that would allow us to express nuanced opinions.

No.

Yes there should be. I would say the first vote was undemocratic as there was not the right information available for people to make an informed decision. Just a wish list of promises on the arse of a bus.

If there is another, the polls say the leave vote will be higher! Same as if there’s a GE they think cons will get more seats.
It is madness. Feels like parliament being run by media. And MP’s looking out for themselves pushing for a GE rather than looking out for the economy.

I can't get over the fact that no-one explained or thought about how big a stumbling block Ireland was going to be. I still can't see how we are going to get past this issue without shitting all over the peace process.

My thinking reflects the whole political situation - I'm at an impasse and I'm confused.

I didn't want this. I'm a remainer. Nor do I want a government led by the likes of Reece-Mogg or JC. I feel like we are all doomed. I feel like the author of Ecclesiastes.

I don't believe we should have a 2nd referendum on Brexit itself, but I do believe there should be an avenue for the people to have some say over the terms. Nothing is without great cost somewhere though.

No, definitely not another referendum!

Instead of insisting we can supposedly now see what Brexit is like, how about actually implementing it as promised and being proved wrong?

@Fruitbatdancer

Not any of the polls I've seen. Just had a quick google to confirm and they all show a swing towards Remain. God knows whether those polls would be accurate though.

@fingerlickingud

We were warned, Blair and Major even did a conference on the topic pre-referendum. It all god filed under 'Project Fear'

@A4Document

How do we implement it?

Parliament has made clear it is against both No Deal and Theresa May's deal. If Parliament can't pass it, why not bounce it back to the people?

There should not be a “People’s Vote”. The result would just be the same or very similar.

And It still wouldn’t meet international standards, unlike the referendum in Scotland.

The EU referendum didn’t allow EU nationals living legally in the UK to vote. That is beyond disgraceful. It’s the equivalent of not allowing people born in England and living in Scotland to vote in a Scottish independence referendum.

It also didn’t allow 16 and 17 year olds to vote, despite them having to live longest with the consequences, and despite them paying tax into the exchequer.

It was a totally illegitimate referendum, completely rigged and re-running the same vote on the same terms would be appalling. I would not vote in it this time.

Yes, but only for your reason 3. All the other reasons would apply to any vote ever and would mean no vote was ever seen as final.

However, to re run the vote on the justification that we were lied to first time round would mean politicians admitting they lied. So that’s not going to happen.

Yes - I think people now see the reality of what Brexit means and it's not what anyone wanted

Like it or not, Parliament will never pass a No Deal Brexit because of the damage most MPs and experts recognize it would do to the country.

Edgeworth surely it’s not a question of whether they’ll pass it or not. If they reach March 29th without coming to a consensus (or managing to extend A50) then that’s it - we’re out.

Edgeworth surely it’s not a question of whether they’ll pass it or not. If they reach March 29th without coming to a consensus (or managing to extend A50) then that’s it - we’re out.

That's what I was thinking. We are running out of time!

I think bums will get quite squeaky but some sort of 11th hour deal will be made. But it will be really crap but they will go for it because the alternative is no deal and hardly anyone wants that. Or extend A50 which will just be embarrassing.

I really think we should have a remain or no deal referendum now. I feel like it would be almost impossible to come to a deal that everyone can have consensus on.

I really think we should have a remain or no deal referendum now

It's probably a bit kamikaze, but there may be something in this.

In the event of parliament not agreeing on a deal (because they are a bunch of numpties that can't agree on anything) then up to the people whether they want to crashout or remain.