Would you want another Brexit referendum?

[simplesalvage]

Inspired by the would you vote the same way thread.

I was initially against another referendum thinking it would be undemocratic to not accept the vote but after reading the 'would you vote the same' thread I think I have changed my mind.

1. It is not undemocratic to ask the same question to people again. You are asking the same people so they can vote the same way again if they wish. In fact asking again is more democratic. When you were in school you would always do repeat science experiments to ensure the results were accurate.
2. Someone said when you have to consent for an operation they take your consent multiple times in case you change your mind - when they first tell you about it and again just before the information. People do change their minds - they learn new information and just have a different state of mind.
3. We do have more information available now. A lot of what was said were lies (think £350 million available to the NHS) and we know a lot more about the general process of leaving now.
4. The population has changed since the referendum. Unfortunately a lot of people have died and 16/17 year olds who could not then now are old enough. Therefore another referendum would provide a more representative view of the future.
5. Another referendum is not likely to ask the same question. It would be more like do you want 'this' deal and to leave with it as that is what we can get (or no deal), or to remain etc.

My main worry about another referendum is that the country would probably descend in to chaos and a minority of leave voters might get a bit nasty.

Anyway sorry for the long post. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me (like I did yesterday!). What are everyones thoughts?

Yes, the voters were under informed for the first vote and I really don't think we should be put off a proper democratic process just because of a few people who will yap about it on Facebook 'you lost end off' everyone loses if we have a no deal Brexit.

Although I have my doubts as to whether the current incarnation of Brexit will come to pass.

If they implemented a better voting system we could check each and every year if Scotland wanted out of the UK or the UK wanted out of EU.

That is absolutely ridiculous How on earth would you implement that? What if they voted remain in 2019 and leave in 2020 and remain in 2021 leave in 2022 etc?

I think yes, with remain / detailed deal as options at least. I’m not sure about no deal as it would be utterly reckless.

I’d prefer the whole thing was cancelled though.

voters were under informed for the first vote

I only ever hear this line from Remainers in reference to Leavers. It’s so patronising to assume they must all have been uneducated and didn’t know what they were voting for.

I'm curious, do those who wish to leave and would support a no deal scenario, look at someone like Corbyn demanding it be taken off the table due to the catastrophic impact it would have on the U.K., still say yes, we should crash out, or do they say, well sweet baby Jesus if even Corbyn is saying it, maybe I got it wrong?

I'm curious, do those who wish to leave and would support a no deal scenario, look at someone like Corbyn demanding it be taken off the table due to the catastrophic impact it would have on the U.K., still say yes, we should crash out, or do they say, well sweet baby Jesus if even Corbyn is saying it, maybe I got it wrong?

I voted to Leave and whilst not wanting a no deal scenario, I can’t see any other position at this point, personally. Jeremy did say it. I don’t believe he believes or would follow through with what he said though if it came down to it.

Oh I think he wants no deal off the table. Don't kid yourself,

I didn't think another referendum would be a good idea, but now I think it's the only answer! Either we go back to the EU, or if the result is the the same as before, we then get out with no deal. And this time no one can say we didn't know what we were voting for!

Do people understand that when you measure any system there is error?

The number of votes cast on a particular day is probably accurate to about +- 100 votes. So it is absolutely certain without a doubt that more votes were cast for leave than remain. What is not certain is whether that was a representative result that reflects what the people of the country actually thought at that point in time.

If you had held the vote the next day, or the previous day, or with better/worse weather, or even exactly the same conditions in a parallel universe, there is no guarantee the result would have been particularly similar. Typically people think that variation is more like 3-4%. So its possible the actual 'will of the people' on that day was anywhere between 56:44 and 48:52 leave to remain

The balance of probability is of course that the will of the people was to leave...but its only about 70% likely...so that's around a 30% probability that 'the will of the people' was actually to remain on that day.

So it doesn't bother me when people say that 52% of votes were cast for leave - that is true. Or that leave won the vote - also perfectly true. But when people say 'the will of the people was clearly expressed' they are talking rubbish....just actual provable drivel. The balance of probability is that the majority of the British public wanted to leave, but it is not clearly expressed in that particular referendum result.

Of course there is no way for politicians to acknowledge that, because people would rabidly defend a one vote margin of victory as having 'clearly expressed the will of the people ' because they have no fucking clue about statistics.

Yes, I do want another vote now, after Theresa May's utterly bizarre behaviour up until 10.15pm today, which will presumably be ongoing.

She's not acting in the nation's interests at all.