Would you want another Brexit referendum?

[simplesalvage]

Inspired by the would you vote the same way thread.

I was initially against another referendum thinking it would be undemocratic to not accept the vote but after reading the 'would you vote the same' thread I think I have changed my mind.

1. It is not undemocratic to ask the same question to people again. You are asking the same people so they can vote the same way again if they wish. In fact asking again is more democratic. When you were in school you would always do repeat science experiments to ensure the results were accurate.
2. Someone said when you have to consent for an operation they take your consent multiple times in case you change your mind - when they first tell you about it and again just before the information. People do change their minds - they learn new information and just have a different state of mind.
3. We do have more information available now. A lot of what was said were lies (think £350 million available to the NHS) and we know a lot more about the general process of leaving now.
4. The population has changed since the referendum. Unfortunately a lot of people have died and 16/17 year olds who could not then now are old enough. Therefore another referendum would provide a more representative view of the future.
5. Another referendum is not likely to ask the same question. It would be more like do you want 'this' deal and to leave with it as that is what we can get (or no deal), or to remain etc.

My main worry about another referendum is that the country would probably descend in to chaos and a minority of leave voters might get a bit nasty.

Anyway sorry for the long post. I know a lot of people will probably disagree with me (like I did yesterday!). What are everyones thoughts?

Absolutely not.

I was and still am a hardcore remainer however, another referendum would be in democratic. I believe we would win a second referendum but, then what?
Best 2 out of 3?

Beerflavourednipples I think the big bit of new information for the scottish referendum is brexit.

I dont know any more tbh. Ideally would like to remain in the eu and I'd like there to be a labour Gov or any vaguely left wing Gov....
But that seems unlikely.
Deffo dont want no deal.
So I guess I wouldn't be unhappy with a second referendum.... but I'd still be worried about it all.
Perhaps I'd prefer there to be a GE and labour to get in so that if we did leave the eu at least we wouldn't be at the mercy of the Tories with no safeguarding on human rights and workers rights etc

Beerflavourednipples I think the big bit of new information for the scottish referendum is brexit.

Well, yes, there is that

No. It would be pointless. Remainers want to reverse the vote and clearly don't care about the reasons behind the vote, so parliament should save money and just reverse it anyway. It's not what I think is right, but at least it would put an end to the like that there are no social divides in England...

Lie

YES and agree withexplodedpeach

No

I voted Remain and I believe in democracy

We are all well aware and this was long before Brexit how we are manipulated and lied too it’s always been around in politics just now with social media it takes on a different form

We also have access to more information than ever people always and always will ignore what they want to

If it’s necessary to break the deadlock, then yes.

We can’t go on like this. Each side is becoming more angry and more intransigent. I was against it but we need to do something because our “leaders” have completely buggered it up.

If there were only two options "deal or no deal" then as a remainer, I would refuse to vote as I don't want either option. Having said that, I am not sure about having a 3rd option to remain. I do feel like we've made our decision and we should get on with it. It's such a mess.

I don't want another referendum, but I'm not sure how else the government gets out of the trap its made for itself.

Refusing to vote shows apathy and gives freedoms to government to do wtf they want. A better approach is to use your vote to spoil your ballot, this shows that you want to vote but your wants are not available

I think a second referendum would be seriously undemocratic, but at this point it could be the lesser of two evils IMO. Also, it seems like it may actually be the only viable way out of this mess - if parliament can't come to an agreement then what alternative is there but to go back to the people?

@Fatas. Perhaps it does show apathy as quite frankly I am fed up with the whole thing!!. But IMO spoiling a ballot paper achieves nothing. If the people who spolit their papers back in 2016 had voted, perhaps we may have had a different outcome.

The thing that worries me rosehip is violence, either civil unrest or against MPs. You seem to have forgotten Jo Cox. Do you honestly think he was one isolated nutter.

I’m very worried.

I'm a hardcore remainer, but no.

I'm not concerned about it being undemocratic. The problem is that another referendum is unlikely to give clear direction. It'll likely be as tight as the last one. And then where are we?

Politicians need to actually lead now. It was a stupid question to ask the public in the first place, let's not repeat it.

May needs to either revoke article 50 (and sell this to the leave voters) or leave on as good terms as we can (and get her party behind this).

No more votes, no more fucking around, but deciding on a plan and executing it minus the drama.

I'm really not sure about the idea of another referendum. You can't keep having a vote until you get the result you want - I speak as a remainer.

It was a stupid, stupid idea in the first place to ask the country to vote on such a complex issue, the ramifications of which, the vast majority of people didn't begin to understand. And of course, the politicians from both sides lied, as politicians will in order to further their aims, so most people were even more ill informed than they would have been if both sides had been honest.

I certainly don't think you can have a re-vote on the basis that the population has changed since the last vote - and would the young voters that would likely come on board in a new vote be any better informed than the people who voted the first time round?

It's a referendum, by it's nature it's a one off vote, which means that you can't keep updating it every time a percentage of the population comes onto the electoral register and a percentage of the people who voted are dead so will no longer be affected.

Rosehip If Brexit doesn't happen, I may well reconsider ever voting again, as evidently my vote doesn't count and can be overturned at will by the politicians. If that is the case, why should I bother? You may not give a flying fuck about representative democracy in the UK dying, and be happy to be governed by unelected fonctionnaires in Brussels, but I am not. Please don't give me any shit about the EU Parl having any teeth, as it is a paper tiger. The power lies with the unelected Commission.

Those who are scoffing at the gilets jaunes might just like to look at the problems it has wrought in Paris and across France. There was a death in Belgium near Liege last weekend during a gilets jaunes protest Water cannon were deployed in downtown Brussels and protesters were tear gassed during a gilets jaunes protest before Christmas. It is spreading, as ideas do. It doesn't take much,

@LaurieMarlow surely it would be more undemocratic for TM to revoke article 50 and go against what the majority voted for?

The question in my view is whether it is still what people want two years on when we are a little more informed at what that means ( i.e the current deal or no deal).

I can't see how anything is going to get through parliament as MPs are so divided on the best course of action (and many seem to have forgotten that the democratic process means representing their constituents not their own view / career ambitions).

To me a 2nd vote seems like the only democratic option, the people voted that they want to leave, so let's put it back to them as to how / if it happens.

I'm so bored of it all now, I just want it to be over either way so we can all just get on with making the best of whatever situation we are in.

fatasfook Refusing to vote shows apathy and gives freedoms to government to do wtf they want. Nope, it shows that we know our votes don't count, so why bother? I have already emailed as much to my MP. See above as well.

Rosehip10 you may not care if people become so disillusioned with democracy that they would never vote again but I do. You want a large amount of the population to feel disenfranchised because they don’t agree with you?
You sneer at older people and anyone with a different opinion. You do not come across as very kind.

Yes but no deal can’t be an option, so between leave- with x deal or remain.

I'm sick of the whole thing. The uncertainty is mucking up business in this country.

@LaurieMarlow surely it would be more undemocratic for TM to revoke article 50 and go against what the majority voted for?

I said I wasn't concerned about how 'democratic' it appears. I think it's beyond that now.

If May decided to revoke article 50, that would be an admission that the initial vote was fatally flawed. However, she would have to sell this to the electorate and that would be a very difficult job.

leaving on as good a terms as possible would probably be a preferable direction from her point of view.

For those who think we should have another vote, what do you think the next steps should be if ...

A) leave wins by as small or smaller margin than before?

B) remains wins by as small or smaller a margin as leave did last time?

Bear in mind one of these scenarios (probably A) is the most likely outcome according to the polls.

Raffleeight I don't give a damn about the wording of the title. It should be on the Brexit Board, not AIBU.