AIBU to be angry that this is still happening!

[CosmicCanary]

Bristol News

I know this is not the only girl this has happened to. I know there will be many many girls who have suffered the same humiliation in school just today.

I was one of them many years ago.
So many times i bled through my pad in lesson but I knew asking to go to the toilet in would be met with a NO so i didn't bother. It was a humiliation in its self for the whole class to know you needed the loo. Such a public audience for an other wise private act.

I have already told my DDs should they need the toilet they must ask but if refused walk out of lesson if they absolutely cannot wait and I will deal with school.
They will not suffer the humiliation and shame of leaving blood on a school chair as I did.

I feel so lucky that I went to an all girls school where the teachers didn't refuse us to go to the loo during class... Yes there was the one student at a time rule, but we were allowed to go.

I cannot get over so many people justifying not letting girls go to the loo.

Plus, those saying for the parents to notify the school if there are any extenuating circumstances... Ie heavy periods..... It's none of the schools fucking business..... I wouldn't dream of sharing that info with anyone beyond my doctor, and my mum!

CosmicCanary

Dealing with parents who don't seem willing to have adult conversations in order to try and navigate these situations. Teachers are explaining very good reasons why they simply cannot allow every child to go as soon as they ask. They're explaining that the best solution is to alert school if your child has a particular need and that this will be met. But rather than do that the attitude is still " how dare you? My child must be allowed full and unfettered access at all times".

Just think about numbers. If all children were encouraged to go to the toilet whenever possible then that would cut down on the number of requests. If every parent whose child had a specific need arranged it with school then that would cut down on the requests.

Maybe then teachers would be able to be more relaxed about the smaller numbers requesting to go during lessons.

What strategies do your children use during times when toilet access is severely limited eg during public exams (surely they aren't allowed to go twice during a 1 hour exam as a PP said her daughter needed to go) or maybe on a train journey (no toilets on tube trains)? Are there ways that you help them to manage these situations and if so would they work at school?

Dealing with parents who don't seem willing to have adult conversations in order to try and navigate these situations.

Navigate a period starting?
Do teachers need to be told that young girls will have periods which usually happen once a month for a round 7 days and may need to use the bathroom more often. I was not aware teachers did not know this

Teachers are explaining very good reasons why they simply cannot allow every child to go as soon as they ask

Nope not good reasons at all. All i have read is "well bad children abuse it and it causes disruption that I will then have to deal with so no children can use the toilet^

how dare you? My child must be allowed full and unfettered access at all times".

Yes how dare you.
How dare you strip my child of their dignity and humiliate them in front of their peers. How dare you put them in a position where they are open to being bullied.

If every parent whose child had a specific need arranged it with school then that would cut down on the requests.

Why not just put the girls in menstrual huts
Its a period not an illness.

What strategies do your children use during times when toilet access is severely limited eg during public exams (surely they aren't allowed to go twice during a 1 hour exam as a PP said her daughter needed to go) or maybe on a train journey (no toilets on tube trains)? Are there ways that you help them to manage these situations and if so would they work at school?

Most trains have toilets.
We dont have the tube in my city not everywhere is London. Most bus journeys are 20 minutes and i would imagine they would seek out a toilet immediately after getting off the bus.
They are 11 and not doing exams.

School is not a toilet free zone like a bus or train. It has the facilities to enable young girls to clean themselves yet teachers like you would rather deny them that or else you may have to actually manage your students effectively.

Yes the strategy is if you need the bathroom then find one asap.

What strategies do your children use during times when toilet access is severely limited eg during public exams (surely they aren't allowed to go twice during a 1 hour exam as a PP said her daughter needed to go)

You put your hand up and get escorted to the toilet.... Never seen one pupil be refused!

I have heavy periods and there is often no warning. I can also bleed through a tampon and a pad in a very short space of time. I could have changed. 30mins before and be leaking through. It is not acceptable to stop menstruating girls from using the toilet.

We aren't just talking about girls needing the toilet to deal with periods though are we? What about children claiming that they have a UTI or diarrhoea? So no need for menstural huts.

And no, most trains in London don't have toilets. How do children manage here travelling to school?

And why are you only focussing on 11 year old girls? So yr 8,9,10 and 11 girls don't have any issues? Only yr 7 girls?

Honestly I think the only way forward is for teachers to let every child who asks to go to leave the classroom immediately. Then when parents start to complain that their child bunked lessons, isn't learning due to either missing too much caused by repeated toilet breaks or the disruption caused by classmates constantly going to the toilet or their child got into a fight whilst going to the toilet during lesson time simply show them this thread and point out that every child must be excused immediately because it's humiliating to ask them to wait.

You put your hand up and get escorted to the toilet.... Never seen one pupil be refused!

Even multiple times during an exam? Are they allowed extra time to finish the exam?

yet teachers like you would rather deny them that or else you may have to actually manage your students effectively.
I'm not a teacher.

MiniMum97

I don't think anyone does want to stop menstruating girls, or any pupil who genuinely need the toilet, from going. The issue is that many students lie about needing to go in order to waste some time and get out of the lesson.

The problem that teachers have is trying to identify who is genuine and who isn't, hence asking them to wait 5 minutes etc.

When my lad had a bladder issue, I explained to the school and he was issued with a hall pass. If you work with the school, it helps. I was also one of those young girls who bled through a huge piece of cotton 4" x 2" in half an hour for ten days a month and was never stopped from leaving class although questions were asked. I used to make sure I had made up the time though.

Any teacher or school who can only deal with their discipline problems by setting teenage girls up to be humiliated in an incredibly predictable and systematic way is pretty fucked up.

The fact that there are teachers and schools who don’t feel the need to do this indicates where the problem is.

I'm surprised this isn't covet

FFS stupid phone screen....

I'm surprised this issue isn't covered either by the Human Rights Act, sex discrimination or even safeguarding, as overly draconian application of toilet rules can often be experienced by adolescent girls as institutional abuse. Shouldn't there be legal guidance on the best way to manage this kind of situation? Yes, teenagers can be little shits when it comes to disruption and manipulating rules, but teachers mustn't lose sight of the fact that teenagers are also children and vulnerable. If girls are regularly bleeding through their clothes because they aren't allowed to sort themselves out, then I think that's a serious red flag (pardon the expression) that the school hasn't got behaviour sorted.

This is bloody awful. Once is very bad but TWICE Words fail.

I too would not drink anything all day including when i got up in the morning so i wouldnt have to use the toilet.........for the whole of high school so five years.

Im sure that this is at least part of the reason for my overactive bladder. I wonder how many of us have been left with these issues.

If this has happened to me at school I doubt I'd have wanted to return. I'd have been mortified beyond belief.

My periods never settled into a pattern until I was about 30, and there could be many months between them. Unless I wanted to wear a pad everyday on the off chance it might start, then yes, I would've been caught unawares. Having to sit there in my own blood and risk other people seeing it/me is probably the most horrifying thing teenage me could imagine.

Plus, those saying for the parents to notify the school if there are any extenuating circumstances... Ie heavy periods..... It's none of the schools fucking business..... I wouldn't dream of sharing that info with anyone beyond my doctor, and my mum!

Exactly. When I started my periods the absolute last thing I wanted to do was mention it to anyone, even my mum. My mum was/is always approachable and open about this sort of thing, but I still hated talking to her about it (I'm way more than open about it now). If anyone had even hinted at talking to my teachers/school about it, they would've ended up with a school refuser on their hands (and I loved school).

Fresh, we are not suggesting that pupils give teachers graphic details of the issue. Parents should phone their point of contact (guidance/pc teacher), briefly outlining the issue and then teachers will be told to allow the pupil to go to the toilet.

Frankly, extremely heavy periods are not something all girls experience. It's distressing for the girls it does happen to. I remember how humiliating it was for me. Part of the reason it was so humiliating was that none of my friends experienced it so I felt pathetic and babyish for constantly bleeding through my clothes. I feel strongly that the type of menstruation we are discussing is a medical issue. I got anaemia from it. It affected my mental health. I had to see my doctor and get declotting agents due to truly horrific period pain. It was a medical issue and as such my mum alerted the school. That embarrassed me but it was necessary because I had a medical need.

Now obviously younger girls may not be used to managing their periods well yet. I am personally a bit more lenient with younger pupils, in particular if they quietly hint the issue.

I think the big issue here is that parents are talking anout high-minded principles and teachers are talking about practicalities. In a perfect world, pupils could use the loo whenever they wished. But schools also have a legal responsibility to supervise pupils and ensure their safety. This is simply not feasible.

@Cosmic I'm probably going to stop posting now. I get that thiss is an emotive issue but I am tired of explaining a position and then seeing such sarcastic and facetious responses. If you're really concerned for DDs I strongly advise you to work with her teachers rather than against them and communicate with her PC or guidance teacher. This will ease your worries and solve many of the concerns you're mentioning. Please remember that we are all on the same side. Teachers do not do this difficult work for relatively poor pay because we want to spite children (even the naughty ones).

I’m a teacher, in a 3-18 academy, so I teach Littlies and teens. I let them all go to the toilet pretty much as soon as they ask, but one at a time.
I also may occasionally ask for them to wait 30s whilst I finish talking if it’s something super important.
One kid ever has abused it. Ever.
We drink water, we have snacks, we listen to the radio, we have a pretty relaxed time. And my results are alright too!
I don’t see why you’d wait a whole lesson to let a kid use the loo?

I am disgusted that this poor girl was not allowed to go to the 'bathroom', would have severe words with teacher if it was my daughter. It's terrible. Was bad enough in my day but I'd have thought people would be more enlightened nowadays.

No-one has the right to refuse a child a toilet break.

I feel like weeping for the girl.

I don't blame individual teachers but I think this really shows what horrible places some schools are. Too big, too rigid, too impersonal and too many problem pupils with issues beyond the help of their class teachers.

@Bamchic - you are proof it can be done!! Well done, maybe some of the other teachers on here can take a leaf....?!

I don't like the idea that anyone who genuinely needs the toilet is not allowed to go.

I also absolutely understand that there are plenty of students who are disruptive, will try to get out of lessons, want to cause havoc around the school etc.

Maybe some posters could explain how teachers can tell who genuinely needs the toilet and who wants to go for a wander, plans on meeting a friend in the toilet etc?

Surely you can understand that it's a balancing act for the teachers? As a parent are you confident that you would always make the right call?

We aren't just talking about girls needing the toilet to deal with periods though are we? What about children claiming that they have a UTI or diarrhoea? So no need for menstural huts.

The OP and linked article are about an 11 yo who was twice denied to use the bathroom and suffered the humiliation of bleeding through her clothes.

And why are you only focussing on 11 year old girls? So yr 8,9,10 and 11 girls don't have any issues? Only yr 7 girls?

Because the article is about an 11 yo girl.
My own DDs are 11 yo.
If 11 yo are denied the toilet I would assume all girls in all years also are.

Then when parents start to complain that their child bunked lessons, isn't learning due to either missing too much caused by repeated toilet breaks or the disruption caused by classmates constantly going to the toilet or their child got into a fight whilst going to the toilet during lesson time simply show them this thread and point out that every child must be excused immediately because it's humiliating to ask them to wait.

You have said parents must be more adult about this and discuss issues with teachers yet the above response is rather childish is it not? Are teachers unable to approach parents in an adult way and explain that their child is asking to use the bathroom in every lesson/is fighting or messing about when given a toilet pass and could they speak to their child as the behaviour is disruptive.
If children are misbehaving in school then it is the teachers responsibility to speak to the parent. Can you imagine how busy the receptionist would be if every parent had to alert school for every girl who was having or could potentially have their period at school?
You are fixated on the fact that some children misbehave therefore the dignity of all children should be removed and you feel its ok to blame parents who refuse to accept that draconian view.
The 11 yo in the article bled through her clothes because an adult decided to deny her the right to use the toilet. That was not the girls fault or the mothers.

I'm not a teacher.

Good.

Bamchic, I am honestly really surprised that you've had such little abuse of your policy. That shows you must be in a school with truly excellent whole school ethos and a very effective SMT. I love my school and pupils (perhaps not my SMT) and I have to admit I'm jealous.

Totally agree with the relaxed classroom atmosphere. I'm a ML teacher so reggaeton is often blasting from my room and rewards often consist of special Café Français breakfasts. I think it has a really positive effect on my results and uptake too.

Sadly I find abuse of toilet trips is very frequent though.

If you're really concerned for DDs I strongly advise you to work with her teachers rather than against them and communicate with her PC or guidance teacher.

Cee why the hell should I discuss my childs periods with the teachers?
Periods are a natural daily occurrence 8n the world. It is not an illness.
School have female pupils do they need it explained to them that periods happen and some reasonable adjustments maybe required?

Girls throughout history were denied and education because they bleed. Sadly in parts of the world this is still the case.

Cosmic, if your DDs periods are so heavy ot unpredictable that she can't reasonably plan for them then yes it does need special accommodation. Obviously we all know about periods but we are not mind readers so please don't be facetious with me.

As I've outlined, I also had that horrible experience from the ages of 11 to 13. Then more normal ones from 13 onwards. It isn't normal to bleed through regularly. Your doctor might be able to help with declotting agents if they're really unmanageable. That made my life a lot easier at that age.