To think people who have children are bonkers

[Ichabod2000]

I read threads like these: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3228427-to-ask-what-s-an-adult-problem-that-nobody-prepared-you-for, and a common theme is the crushing relentlessness and thanklessness of parenting (motherhood in particular).

Why do it? Really? It's largely a voluntary choice, and has a tangible negative impact on your time, finances, career, relationships, and often physical and mental health. Not to mention the huge negative impact overpopulation is having on our planet.

I understand people feel overwhelming love for their children, but this is after the fact - you don't feel overwhelming love for children that don't exist yet.

And people talk about how rewarding it is - but there are lots of rewarding things you can do that don't involve propagating your genes.

I'm at an age where people ask me about my plans for children, and I just can't objectively see an advantage to it. I have a brilliant DH, an interesting job that I enjoy, and plenty of free time and moolah. Why would I make the conscious decision to risk these things I have? Why do so many make that choice?

I think it's bananas, personally, and I wonder if its just me that doesn't get it?

Although I agree it’s a strange site to choose if you are actively against the idea of other people having children.

@bunnycolvin I was talking about the OP not you. Odd you assumed that.
As I said - importance and enjoyment at subjective. I’m not trying to force having children in anyone. But those telling parents they’re crazy for having kids or claiming having children is some some sort of prison sentence are forcing their ideals on people.

@M3lon you sound a real hoot!
I have a child because I want a child. Not because I feel society has forced it upon me. Doesn’t make me brain washed.

@stevie your list is such a negligible part of being a parent. It really is. It’s utterly skewed.

However by making it you’ve illustrated my point perfectly about the childfree not really having a clue about what being a parent really is like.

I would do world book day every day - I don’t give a shit - if the trade off is I have my children : who you not knowing or loving will never understand and I feel sad for you. But I won’t because I won’t insult your intelligence. So please don’t insult mine.

My list is a big enough part of being a parent for me to know that I don't want to do it.

I completely fail to see how I've in any way insulted your intelligence.

Sarahrellyboo, I didn't realise the choice was children OR holidays and money!

Me and DH must have gone wrong somewhere then because we don't have children but also don't have much money and haven't had many holidays over the years. Most of the holidays we have had have been in the UK.

Neither of us is materialistic. I have far less possessions than almost anyone I know

Sad that you don’t know my children not that you’ve chosen not to have them. sorry that didn’t read well

You're sad that I don't know your children? I don't really know what to say to that, apart from: please don't be. My life is perfectly happy with the friendships and relationships that I do have.

I assume that your sadness extends to the rest of the Board too, the majority of whom presumably don't know your children?

Although I agree it’s a strange site to choose if you are actively against the idea of other people having children.

I'm not aware that anyone is actively against others having children. I'm merely actively against ME having children.

Do humans have just as much right to exist as any other living creature?

Lots of humans seem to think other creatures don't have a right to exist. We have taken over the habitat of so many animals from lions, tigers down to foxes.

Overpopulation and the masses problems it will cause don't seem to be taken very seriously by most and really by the time anything is done about it it will probably be too late (probably already is too late).

I'm sure many people do have a strong desire to have children, but I admit I am one of those who did it because it was expected.

I didn't feel a strong drive to reproduce, but I had always assumed I would have children at some stage. I was married and not enjoying my job very much and a bit lost. Crap reasons which I didn't acknowledge at the time, instead trotting out trite phrases like "The time is right for us" etc.

I both loved and hated being a parent. I loved having my own little family and was surprised to find little children are actually a lot of fun. I hated the endless drudgery, pressure to get it right and sleepless nights.

My DCs are adults now. On balance I feel I have gained more than I gave. In particular having them has helped me cope with my parents' deaths and my own mortality. I haven't always felt that way, though, and especially when they were young I sometimes regretted having them.

There is a massive taboo against saying this out loud in our society, understandably as I would certainly not want my children to hear me say it.

@stevie69

I'm not aware that anyone is actively against others having children. I'm merely actively against ME having children.

The OP's posted a thread stating her opinion that those of us who have had DC are 'bonkers'. That's what posters are reacting against. Not against child free posters per se.

@stevie69 you need to stop attacking people on here. What I meant was I am sad that you write such things about being a mother on your bitter little list and I feel sad you don't know how lovely children can be, above and beyond those things.

You mustn't or your list would have been generous enough to include them.

Sad that you don’t know my children.

Whaaat? That statement is all sorts of ridiculous. Do try not to make everything about you and your children.

@stevie69 you impliedly insult many many parents with that sort of list. You construct a version of our lives trapped on some sort of tiny tyrant hamster wheel that you yourself have been smarter than us to avoid. Honestly, yes of course there are moments like this but by and large my children are absolutely fucking brilliant and I smile all the time because of them. What you and similar others who chose not to know is they are so so so beyond worth it. World book day or night feeding. Or anything you can throw at me. Good for you: you love your life I also love mine!

You should try being a bit more live and let live in your rich varied infinitely more fabulous life as you are so sure of instead of foaming at the mouth about what you think bullets you have dodged according to you thank you very much

@stevie69 you need to stop attacking people on here. What I meant was I am sad that you write such things about being a mother on your bitter little list and I feel sad you don't know how lovely children can be, above and beyond those things.

You mustn't or your list would have been generous enough to include them.

I haven't attacked you or anyone else. My 'list' merely shows what my own reasons were for not having children. For me those things outweigh the potential positives. That's just me. I've never said it should apply to you.

Of course I know how lovely some children can be. There are children in my wider family. I've looked after my friend's since they were born — see previous post.

I don't know why you're getting so accusatory and worked up.

@katekat383 stop being so anal or literal. Either, whatever love
I have clarified my meaning before you posted your outrage. Though I suspect a lot of people with a sense of context, the spirit it was intended and some emotional intelligence knew what I meant........

Get a grip.

@stevie69 you impliedly insult many many parents with that sort of list. You construct a version of our lives trapped on some sort of tiny tyrant hamster wheel that you yourself have been smarter than us to avoid. Honestly, yes of course there are moments like this but by and large my children are absolutely fucking brilliant and I smile all the time because of them. What you and similar others who chose not to know is they are so so so beyond worth it. World book day or night feeding. Or anything you can throw at me. Good for you: you love your life I also love mine!

You should try being a bit more live and let live in your rich varied infinitely more fabulous life as you are so sure of instead of foaming at the mouth about what you think bullets you have dodged according to you thank you very much

Absolutely not. I have insulted nobody. I have not constructed a version of your life at all. I have explained the choices in my own.

I'm absolutely 'live and let live'. Read back through my posts. I applaud your choice and everyone else's choice. I've never said otherwise.

Yes, I think I dodged a bullet. That bit is true. However, that doesn't mean that I think that you took one between the eyes.

If it's not for you, that's OK. I don't think turning to the Internet to call out other people's life choices is really about decision making though.
Why the need to vent?

If it's not for you, that's OK. I don't think turning to the Internet to call out other people's life choices is really about decision making though.
Why the need to vent?

Well, it's a discussion thread. I'm debating: explaining my personal choices for remaining child free. I haven't called out anyone else's choices. If I have, please reference and I'll apologise.

Nobody else is saying I am those things.
There were a fair few saying it to you and a couple of other people soapboxing on here.

Your writing of that funny little list like that was always going to end with actual parents laughing it off as an infinitesimal fragment of parenting and calling you out on it (as myself and a couple of other people have). It is what you expected surely.

Most of know what are we are letting go of (perhaps not at all or for a short time ) when we have children especially if we have had what you and others insist on describing as a fabulous life before having children. I did.

I apologised to you for not phrasing myself well re the comment about my sadness and my children and I suspect you as an obviously intelligent woman knew what I was trying to say, but you didn't have the grace to leave it.

Celebrate your own life choices.
End of.

I suspect you as an obviously intelligent woman knew what I was trying to say, but you didn't have the grace to leave it.

Well, I've always known that I lack grace to be honest. Still, can't have everything, can ya?

Right. Sure. I shall throw some buns.

A list of what I lost when having my child:

My self confidence
My mental health
My ability to do my job successfully
TBH I will eventually lose my job..it just hasn't quite happened yet
My ability to use the loo without pain
My sense of who I am as a person along with any remaining self-esteem.

These are all coupled and of course they certainly don;t happen to everyone! But they happen to a significant minority. That this could be the result of childbirth for women is a risk that can and should be taken account of...and isn't, because people are forced to toe the party line on it all be worth any sacrifice because you get a child out of it.

stevies list might come off as a bit shallow - but being pragmatic and actually thinking about who YOU are and the possible outcomes of having kids for YOU, is something a lot more people should take a lot more seriously before going through with it.

I never had a hormonal/primal urge for children, it was a purely intellectual preference to have them. Even after giving birth to DC1, it took me a while to develop that deep maternal love.

I also went to a top university, have a good career, good friends, and absolutely love time alone and reading/sleeping in, the latter of which are just not on the daily menu any more.

And with all that being said - it's utter bollocks that childrearing is relentless and thankless. Everything but! You certainly can't take a break from being a parent, you have to be switched on all the time and it's exhausting. But so much fun and so rewarding at the same time! My kids are the most wonderful people I've ever met. I love hanging out with them, I give thanks every day for the privilege.

You know how poets go on about romantic love just sweeping you up and infusing your world with rainbows and all that? Parental love is like that x1000. Imagine meeting your romantic soulmate - that would also impinge on your freedom but most people would consider that a worthwhile trade-off. Having children is like that x1000.

I suspect at least some of the people moaning to you about their children do it because it's not the done thing to go on about how wonderful they are, either to other parents (because it could sound like boasting) or to childless people (so as not to make them feel bad for what they are missing out on). Or they are just moaners and unable to enjoy the spirit of play and generosity and pure love that children bring :)

/pace extreme cases of course like grave personality disorders/

I should also add that obviously all that is predicated on not suffering from debilitating physical or mental health problems oneself, and having sufficient support... by no means did I mean to belittle experiences like M3lon's.

Thing is, it's very hard to decide what children might mean for "YOU", because you simply cannot appreciate it until you are there. And it's absolutely right to be aware of the downsides and hard bits beforehand. It just makes sense not to discount the wonderful bits.

I wouldn't say people who have kids are bonkers, but clearly they find pleasure in things that I never would,

Here's a thread from Mumsnet classics, written by parents, which makes parenthood seem like a neverending drudge.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/2731884-I-hate-having-kids?reverse=1